Gt350 vs e92 M3

[Stuntman]

Thats why I laugh when people say the M3 you have to rev out to have fun, makes me question whether they even drove one. There isn't a lazy gear in the whole car, the cars gearing is darn near perfect to match the powerband.

Do you not track yours or rev yours out? A base GT has 50-75lb-ft more torque than the M3 and it (like the F80) has a wider useable powerband and is fast in this mid range where the S65 lacks power and torque and needs to be revved to make power.

The F80's torque curve makes if feel more like a Coyote V8 than the S65.

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[arsenalrocks]

honestly most people here probably never driven one, or own one, or couldn't afford one. Before the s550 gen I wouldn't even give the mustang a second look due to the obvious reasons.

the s550 with IRS started changing my opinion about the car, and the gt350 for sure attracted a lot of the n/a 6spd crowd from BMW and Porsche, me included.

I am fortunate enough to own both, and I gave my unbiased opinion about both. As i said, the e92 m3 is closer to a perfect car than the gt350. in fact, I would take a stroker m3 or s85b50 swap m3 over gt350 anyday.

the biggest weakness of gt350 are size and weight and that 16.5:1 steering ratio with ESP and none of which you can really do anything about.
The m3 has lower weight, feels and is much smaller, and 12.5:1 hydraulic steering that is race like.

also, you can tell the voodoo engine has much heavier crank, it revs slower and rpm falls back much slower than m3, partially due to its shorter stroke, and partially due to a light crank at 44lbs vs. 50+ for voodoo.

not to mention, the s65b40 is a work of art, with 8 ITB for instant throttle response. what other production cars have that?

Thats why I laugh when people say the M3 you have to rev out to have fun, makes me question whether they even drove one. There isn't a lazy gear in the whole car, the cars gearing is darn near perfect.

 

[krt22]

honestly most people here probably never driven one, or own one, or couldn't afford one.

SMH, you just HAD to go and make the typical BMW douche comment. You can appreciate a car without going full fanboi :headbonk:

 

[Dave2013M3]

I agreed with your assessment of the stock damping of the GTPP & the V8 M3 being more buttoned down. But stock for stock with the same driver, the GTPP will probably win every time despite the less refined suspension.

Sorry this makes no sense...the M3 has a more refined suspension and its more buttoned down but the S550 is going to be quicker around a track with tires being equal, even though the E92 weighs 200lbs less? Sorry disagree and I will leave it at that. I respect your opinion, but just don't agree with it.

Here is a 2010 E92 M3 running a 7:36 BTG with just KW clubsports, 265 Mich PSCs and a Recaro seat...love to see what a GTPP would do. BTW, this isn't a pro or BMW driver either.
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Dave

 

[arsenalrocks]

dude, I am not a fanboi. I own both cars. if anything, I am the opposite of fanboi.

the real fanboi are the few ppl here who talk about their 57k USD gt350 as if god himself made it.

SMH, you just HAD to go and make the typical BMW douche comment. You can appreciate a car without going full fanboi :headbonk:

 

[MCarsFan]

I just want to say that you guys are comparing a car that with an engine that was designed in 2005 and released in 2007 to a car that is newer by more than a decade....

That tells you so much about how special S65 is. I am not saying vodoo is not special, but BMW accomplished this more than a decade ago with that day's technology and limitations. I wish they hadnt lost their way because the new generation M cars are a joke.

I will also say that you can buy a 2011 M3 for $30k now whereas gt350 costs 25k more.

For that 25k, you can get a 625 supercharger (12k), brand new suspension and brembo brakes and recaro seats, and that car will do 11 flat at 130 mph and will run circles around gt350 in a drag strip or a race track.

It also funnily has far better technology like idrive etc than a car that is 10+ years newer Not a bad idea....

 

[Dave2013M3]

SMH, you just HAD to go and make the typical BMW douche comment. You can appreciate a car without going full fanboi :headbonk:

Have to agree with this..we can have a civil discussion without the innuendo that goes along with this. I love cars, well most car..will never buy a Cheby.. Cheby make fast and cool cars, just would never buy one..sorry Dad worked for Ford for 22 years.

 

[krt22]

You can own both and still be a full on fanboi. Your inability to have a constructive debate without making elitist douchey comments confirms it. :cheers: Enjoy your cars and their dyno curve shapes.

I honestly like the E92 a lot, praised it multiple times in this thread and considered buying one on many occasions. With that being said they are 2 very different cars, one has a considerable performance advantage, the other is obviously more refined with superior fit and finish. Which is "best" really comes down to personal preference.

 

[Dave2013M3]

honestly most people here probably never driven one, or own one, or couldn't afford one. Before the s550 gen I wouldn't even give the mustang a second look due to the obvious reasons.

the s550 with IRS started changing my opinion about the car, and the gt350 for sure attracted a lot of the n/a 6spd crowd from BMW and Porsche, me included.

I am fortunate enough to own both, and I gave my unbiased opinion about both. As i said, the e92 m3 is closer to a perfect car than the gt350. in fact, I would take a stroker m3 or s85b50 swap m3 over gt350 anyday.

the biggest weakness of gt350 are size and weight and that 16.5:1 steering ratio with ESP and none of which you can really do anything about.
The m3 has lower weight, feels and is much smaller, and 12.5:1 hydraulic steering that is race like.

also, you can tell the voodoo engine has much heavier crank, it revs slower and rpm falls back much slower than m3, partially due to its shorter stroke, and partially due to a light crank at 44lbs vs. 50+ for voodoo.

not to mention, the s65b40 is a work of art, with 8 ITB for instant throttle response. what other production cars have that?

Actually couldn't have said it best myself, never got a chance to drive a GT350 but your opinion holds a lot of weight.

Nothing has a better throttle response than the S65B40, and not to mention the induction noise those 8 ITBs make through a aftermarket CAI, it really is a joy.

 

[1mic]

Sorry this makes no sense...the M3 has a more refined suspension and its more buttoned down but the S550 is going to be quicker around a track with tires being equal, even though the E92 weighs 200lbs less? Sorry disagree and I will leave it at that. I respect your opinion, but just don't agree with it.

Here is a 2010 E92 M3 running a 7:36 BTG with just KW clubsports, 265 Mich PSCs and a Recaro seat...love to see what a GTPP would do. BTW, this isn't a pro or BMW driver either.



Dave

Quoting ring times are useless, times should be compared to what the magazines have done in the US. That time posted is also with a modified m3. As it stands the e92 m3 is less than 1 second faster than a track pack s197 5.0.
Basically the e92 m3 is no match for a boss 302, which not only has more power but weighs lighter too.
Then you have the better braking s550 5.0 performance pack, not too sure on the times that car has posted, but I wouldn't be surprised if it really is faster than a boss 302. And then there's the gt350, lol not even close. For the $ you aren't going to beat the gt350. Sounds awesome too.

 

[MCarsFan]

Quoting ring times are useless, times should be compared to what the magazines have done in the US. That time posted is also with a modified m3. As it stands the e92 m3 is less than 1 second faster than a track pack s197 5.0.
Basically the e92 m3 is no match for a boss 302, which not only has more power but weighs lighter too.
Then you have the better braking s550 5.0 performance pack, not too sure on the times that car has posted, but I wouldn't be surprised if it really is faster than a boss 302. And then there's the gt350, lol not even close. For the $ you aren't going to beat the gt350. Sounds awesome too.

I dont understand this. M3 is 30k. Gt350 with track pack is 56k. For 26k, you can add a supercharger, add kw suspension all around, brembo brakes, recaro seat, and cup2 tires. That car will run circles around the ford.

I am not saying gt350 is not a better car stock for stock. But the entire "value" proposition does not hold true. One car costs twice as much as the other one....

 

[Stuntman]

Sorry this makes no sense...the M3 has a more refined suspension and its more buttoned down but the S550 is going to be quicker around a track with tires being equal, even though the E92 weighs 200lbs less? Sorry disagree and I will leave it at that. I respect your opinion, but just don't agree with it.

Here is a 2010 E92 M3 running a 7:36 BTG with just KW clubsports, 265 Mich PSCs and a Recaro seat...love to see what a GTPP would do. BTW, this isn't a pro or BMW driver either.

Dave

The M3 has better body control but that doesn't make up for the ~50whp & 100+ tq deficit and slightly wider tires. IIRC, most E92s weigh the same as a GTPP: 3,718lbs full tank of fuel.

http://www.vorshlag.com/blog/?p=837

E92 M3 with cat delete, light weight wheels, lighter rear muffler: 3,714lbs: half a tank of fuel

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=997239

Having tracked both, I would give the upper hand to the GTPP but not by much. To each their own, let the bench racing continue.

I dont understand this. M3 is 30k. Gt350 with track pack is 56k. For 26k, you can add a supercharger, add kw suspension all around, brembo brakes, recaro seat, and cup2 tires. That car will run circles around the ford.

I am not saying gt350 is not a better car stock for stock. But the entire "value" proposition does not hold true. One car costs twice as much as the other one....

And for $56K I could buy a used Noble M12 and be faster than almost everything on track. Or buy a C5 Z06, turbocharge it and run A7 slicks... Slippery slope.

 

[MCarsFan]

The M3 has better body control but that doesn't make up for the ~50whp & 100+ tq deficit and slightly wider tires. IIRC, most E92s weigh the same as a GTPP: 3,718lbs full tank of fuel.

http://www.vorshlag.com/blog/?p=837

E92 M3 with cat delete, light weight wheels, lighter rear muffler: 3,714lbs: half a tank of fuel

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=997239

Having tracked both, I would give the upper hand to the GTPP but not by much. To each their own, let the bench racing continue.


And for $56K I could buy a used Noble M12 and be faster than almost everything on track. Or buy a C5 Z06, turbocharge it and run A7 slicks... Slippery slope.

That is all TRUE. I am simply pointing out that if gt350 wins on anything against the M3, it is not value proposition. It costs almost twice as much....

 

[1mic]

I dont understand this. M3 is 30k. Gt350 with track pack is 56k. For 26k, you can add a supercharger, add kw suspension all around, brembo brakes, recaro seat, and cup2 tires. That car will run circles around the ford.

I am not saying gt350 is not a better car stock for stock. But the entire "value" proposition does not hold true. One car costs twice as much as the other one....

I did say for the money huh? lol. I meant that for a new car that has performance this good, the value is pretty good. The only cars stock, NEW from factory that can beat the GT350 are cars like the Corvette, and those are a bit more money.

How is the reliability on a used M3? I need honest answers before I text my bud who was a BMW tech and get the truth.

 

[Stuntman]

I did say for the money huh? lol. I meant that for a new car that has performance this good, the value is pretty good. The only cars stock, NEW from factory that can beat the GT350 are cars like the Corvette, and those are a bit more money.

How is the reliability on a used M3? I need honest answers before I text my bud who was a BMW tech and get the truth.

IIRC the GT350 track was similar to a Z51 C7 on track. M3s have rod bearing issues and there's quite a few blown motors as a result. Similar issues with the V10 & S54 I-6 motors but seems like its the worst in the S65 V8. Many people are swapping out rod bearings and taking oil samples to Blackstone with every oil change to stay on top of things. I wouldn't own one out of warranty.

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