Going for 500whp N/A

[Kahboom]

Untrue, gen 1 coyote made peak power at 7300rpm, most tuners still tune gen 2 as if it were the same. As per frpp quoted the gen 2 heads flow the same as the cnc boss heads but are cast. Gen 2 is not the same.

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[veeefour]

Untrue, gen 1 coyote made peak power at 7300rpm, most tuners still tune gen 2 as if it were the same. As per frpp quoted the gen 2 heads flow the same as the cnc boss heads but are cast. Gen 2 is not the same.

Very true, there's a difference between GT coyote and Boss Coyote....

S550 head has absolutely nothing in common with cnc ported Boss head...

 

[Stuntman]

Very true, there's a difference between GT coyote and Boss Coyote....

S550 head has absolutely nothing in common with cnc ported Boss head...

The knowledge learned by the boss heads were incorporated into the Gen 2 coyote to flow virtually the same as the Boss head. Throw on the same intake manifold as the boss and it'll make the same, if not more power.

0.02

 

[veeefour]

The knowledge learned by the boss heads were incorporated into the Gen 2 coyote to flow virtually the same as the Boss head. Throw on the same intake manifold as the boss and it'll make the same, if not more power.

0.02

Tru - simply "technological advance".

But then it uses different valve sizes and different cams - plus I saw CFM form Boss and S550 and Boss still flows a tad better. You just can't beat CNC porting.

 

[kris5597]

Nope I think you're looking at the Holley sniper or an auto dyno. The boss is tuned for 7750 while the Cobra Jet is tune for 8000. If you get a different manifold you also need VCT adjustments, maybe that's what's going on they're not doing the VCT adjustments.

Finally, somebody else gets it. VCT tuning on the S550 is very time consuming but very much worth it. I saw minimal gains when installing the boss manifold on my personal vehicle, not until I tuned VCT did I really see drastic improvements, not just peak but midrange torque and power from 6000-8000rpm.

I also saw someone previously ask about the midlock phasers on the S550 engine. The S550 coyote has midlock phasers on both intake and the exhaust cams, creating a base position for the cams to start at. For the intake it is 20* of advance and the exhaust is 9* of retard, based off cam gear positions.

Kris

 

[Kahboom]

Yeah you can't out flow cnc ported heads with cast heads. But as far as RPM it's much more reliant on the cams and manifold being used. In order for the heads to come near the boss heads the valves are bigger and the lift is a bit more on the gen 2 heads. Remember gen 1 was 11mm lift vs gen 2 13mm lift.

 

[Kahboom]

Yeah just bolting on a boss or Cobra Jet doesn't​ do much until the VCT is actually tuned. Then it's a freight train up top.

 

[kris5597]

S550 Coyote stock camshaft specs are more aggressive than the Boss engine, significant improvement over the S197 coyote. The valve size is extremely similar to the Boss engine as well, there are minor differences compared to the Boss engine, head porting method is one, that I would agree does matter, but minor. Head flow is head flow. Regardless of how the ports are made, CNC or Cast. If the flow numbers are damn close, then you will get close performance.

Kris

 

[kris5597]

Yeah just bolting on a boss or Cobra Jet doesn't​ do much until the VCT is actually tuned. Then it's a freight train up top.

The sad part about it, after being asked to review datalogs from people on vehicles with various intake manifold setups, VCT does not appear to be adjusted in the correct manor from big name tuners. I just don't understand...

~Kris

 

[ford20]

sean wright that you?

Yes sir

Who dis?

well either that or the valve to piston clearance is differet too. so the gen2s dont require phase locks.

Iffffffff i had the coin or if i could give a limb id LOVE to have giant lift custom cams and custom 13:1 compression pistons with valve reliefs to run e85 and NO PHASE locks to maintain the VCT ability of the engine and not have to sacrifice low rpm torque.

The thought of such a build with big cams big compression on e85 with full vct makes my pants tight lol.

Add in some extra CI and you would have a pretty healthy combo. My buddy Darren has a pretty serious build where we are currently making similar power (before he moved over to a standalone), the only difference is I have more CI than he does, but he makes up for it with an increased CR. If I am remembering correctly he was making 607/443 with a 12.5:1 compression 312/318 ci block meanwhile I made 609/448 with 11:1 compression 326ci block. Granted there are differences in heads, cams, intakes etc. but I think that is as close to a comparison as we are going to be getting. If someone would be able to get one of the JPC Racing 326ci blocks, 13:1 compression and with the improvements on the 2015 cams (I think I have the 2011-2015 cams in my 2015 heads) I am positive that on E85 you would either be kissing 600 or above it. With something like FTW Purple, you would probably see something somewhere in the 620 range. There is another guy Brian who is just starting the assembly on his build which is a 13:1 302 ci block with the whole parts store thrown at it who will be running E85 and should be up and running in a few months.

 

[Stuntman]

Tru - simply "technological advance".

But then it uses different valve sizes and different cams - plus I saw CFM form Boss and S550 and Boss still flows a tad better. You just can't beat CNC porting.

The knowledge learned on the Boss resulted in as close as they could replicate in the new Gen 2 casting, along with larger valves and different cams. The Boss has better valve springs and a higher redline, as well as a MUCH higher pricetag for a crate motor. A simple valve spring and intake manifold upgrade would result in better performance all around for far less money. That's progress....

 

[veeefour]

The knowledge learned on the Boss resulted in as close as they could replicate in the new Gen 2 casting, along with larger valves and different cams. The Boss has better valve springs and a higher redline, as well as a MUCH higher pricetag for a crate motor. A simple valve spring and intake manifold upgrade would result in better performance all around for far less money. That's progress....

Springs are identical.

 

[Stuntman]

Springs are identical.

I stand corrected. But they have to close a larger and heavier valve spring so thus, can't rev as high as the boss.

 

[Scp-steve]

I can beat a Cnc ported head all day long

 

[veeefour]

I stand corrected. But they have to close a larger and heavier valve spring so thus, can't rev as high as the boss.

Roughly 0.2 and 0.8 mm bigger in diameter - you wont feel a thing.

I can beat a Cnc ported head all day long

I don't think so mate...:eyebulge:

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