GM is pulling back on EVs

[GT 550]

Two wrongs don't make a right and those parallels are only good when adjusted for contemporaneous circumstances which no one will bother to do; specifically, awareness in general has improved dramatically since the 1900-1950s.

Hence awareness of the situation re lithium extraction and disposal was raised quickly and has been on the public record for many years, but was it addressed in a constructive and timely manner while the forced introduction of EVs continues apace? Nope. It was simply dumped in the too hard basket along with the grid and other inconvenient issues.

Vested interests once again forged ahead, enabled by economic power, motivated by greed and emboldened by the knowledge that most of us are unwilling to pull back the shades on something that's conveniently out of sight and mind.

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[sk47]

This is what tankers will do for you. All of that subsidized fossil fuel is like a bomb traveling on our highways everyday! Gets in our rivers, lakes, oceans, drinking ground water, etc.

​

On the morning of June 11, 2023, a vehicle fire under I-95 near the Cottman Avenue exit in Northeast Philadelphia caused a portion of the highway to collapse. Preliminary reports indicate a tanker truck was involved in the fire. Pennsylvania State Police closed I-95 in both directions around the area.​

https://www.phila.gov/2023-06-11-updates-on-the-i-95-fire-and-partial-highway-collapse/

Time Magazine Tries To Blame Crappy Infrastructure Management On Climate Change In Hilariously Tragic Article (msn.com)

Hello; this link nailed parts of the agendas talking points. Specifically the "rolling bomb" talking point. Looks like jtmat got the memo.

 

[sk47]

Hence awareness of the situation re lithium extraction and disposal was raised quickly and has been on the public record for many years, but was it addressed in a constructive and timely manner while the forced introduction of EVs continues apace? Nope. It was simply dumped in the too hard basket along with the grid and other inconvenient issues.

Hello; I love this comment. Just ignore the issues without a convenient solution and keep pushing the agenda.

A few pages ago there were posts about the fact in Brittan a two coal power plants were fired up. The reasons were easy enough to understand. They need more power than the "green" stuff could provide. What is my point?
My point being I read an article in which climate/environmental activists were screaming foul. They, the activists, were railing against the use of the two coal power plants no matter that it was an emergency move. They just did not want the coal plants to be used at all.
I even get their position. They think burning coal is bad. Thing is for them to have their preferred way the citizens would have to do without power during a heat wave. Better for folks to suffer and even do without power altogether than to use the coal. Lays things out pretty clearly I think.

I should not do the next comment but will. Our own activists on this thread have shown a similar bent about coal fired power plants in the USA. They want us to stop using coal. (and likely do without) But actually defend China's building and using many brand-new coal plants each month. That this convoluted thinking appears to make sense to them is a clue.

 

[sk47]

The Pros And Cons Of Solid-State Batteries (msn.com)

“SSBs are lighter, safer, charge faster, and have a longer life span than traditional lithium-ion batteries. So, why isn’t every manufacturer using them? Solid-state Batteries are still a relatively new technology. Creating and manufacturing them on a large scale has presented its own set of challenges. The cost of these batteries is much greater, and while electric vehicle price tags are some of the highest in the auto world, these batteries just aren't really feasible at this time. “

“With such an immense upside, It's hard to imagine the emergence of solid-state batteries as anything except positive, but as the great Mark Frost once said “there can be no light without darkness”. “

“Because the battery uses no liquid electrolyte to transfer energy from cathode to anode, or vice versa, there has to be a solid electrolyte to take its place. Materials for this kind of technology are scarce and very expensive.”

“Some estimates put Solid State batteries at three-four times the price of traditional lithium-ion batteries.”

“Lithium-ion batteries have created some pretty memorable explosions over the years. These are often espoused early and often by EV skeptics, and for good reason. We all remember the Galaxy Note 7 recall. If you don't, open up a new tab and browse YouTube for a few minutes, it's worth it. And, phones exploding in your pocket is just the tip of the iceberg. More recently, a fire in the Bronx required the attention of 200 firefighters after an electric scooter battery exploded in an apartment building. This is only one example of the over 200 fires from lithium batteries last year in New York alone, and that’s a small battery by electric vehicle standards.”

“The challenge to overcome is the heat. The battery used in this bus operates at around 175 degrees. That’s not going to cut it on a summer day in Florida. That may be the biggest challenge for all EVs using solid-state batteries. So far all the claims and projections have mentioned that the batteries are lighter and denser, and that distinction will allow them to take up less space. But if there is extra cooling needed, we may be trading battery space for cooling space.”

 

[K4fxd]

Weird argument.

Nothing weird about it. He is saying we need to end ICE because some lose their life. I asked what about the kids mining battery materials.

As usual crickets.

Double standard again. If it is supposed to be GREEN the cost does not matter.

 

[Burkey]

Two wrongs don't make a right and those parallels are only good when adjusted for contemporaneous circumstances which no one will bother to do; specifically, awareness in general has improved dramatically since the 1900-1950s.

Hence awareness of the situation re lithium extraction and disposal was raised quickly and has been on the public record for many years, but was it addressed in a constructive and timely manner while the forced introduction of EVs continues apace? Nope. It was simply dumped in the too hard basket along with the grid and other inconvenient issues.

Vested interests once again forged ahead, enabled by economic power, motivated by greed and emboldened by the knowledge that most of us are unwilling to pull back the shades on something that's conveniently out of sight and mind.

I get it, but does that mean that we should stop procuring the commodity entirely or does it mean that we should try harder to improve the quality of life of those who do the job? Historically, the latter has been the path forward. Why change a system that has a history of delivering desirable outcomes?

The problem with this thread (and others like it) is that some people are conflating issues.
Example: It’s a simple fact that quarantine (done properly) works. We’ve know that it works for CENTURIES. That‘s an indisputable fact. Whether it should be done or not or even how it should be done, is a political discussion.
What some are doing is conflating the two concepts because they seemingly can’t process the idea that something can be true AND that they have every right to disagree with the implementation of a response to that fact, so they feel the need to dispute the fact/s.

Whether masks work or not is a science issue. Whether they should be used is political. You CAN understand that they have the potential to reduce spread and choose to live in a society that doesn’t embrace them. This shouldn’t be too hard to process. Sweden did exactly that. The Swedish government understood that masks offered some advantage but chose not to implement them. Australia (like many countries) is doing exactly that right now.

It’s also a fact that renewables can deliver cheaper power than even the cheapest alternatives. Again, whether we should do that or not is where the debate should take place, not an argument about the fact that this is both possible for renewables to be cheaper and that it is already happening.

So, like any rational person, I’m not going to argue that kids (and adults) aren’t dying from the work they do. I’m also not going to argue that the process should cease immediately. I’m going to look at the fact that this is happening and wonder what the REAL solutions might be. Eg. Accepting the facts and trying to find a way to address the facts.

 

[K4fxd]

It’s also a fact that renewables can deliver cheaper power than even the cheapest alternatives.

This is not fact.

Whether masks work or not is a science issue.

It was sold as science. Remember all the "follow the science" BS that was being spread? When the distance between the fibers of the mask are larger than the virus the mask does nothing.

Accepting the facts and trying to find a way to address the facts.

Get rid of the mandates is a good starting point.

 

[Burkey]

Nothing weird about it. He is saying we need to end ICE because some lose their life. I asked what about the kids mining battery materials.

As usual crickets.

Double standard again. If it is supposed to be GREEN the cost does not matter.

Not crickets.
If you’d stop pretending that extracting fossil fuels isn’t also killing people, that would be a good start. If ysyd also accept that the emissions from burning them can cause respiratory issues, that would also be good. Shall we talk about the wildlife that is directly killed in the process, along with the destruction caused long after?
Oil spills? Crickets….
Scientists have made it abundantly clear that IF they’re correct, the cost of going green is nothing compared to the cost of doing nothing.

You’re free to argue their findings of course, but you’ll need to conduct your own studies and show that their math is wrong. Peer-review will soon show if you’ve got the numbers right or not.

 

[Burkey]

This is not fact.

It was sold as science. Remember all the "follow the science" BS that was being spread? When the distance between the fibers of the mask are larger than the virus the mask does nothing.

Get rid of the mandates is a good starting point.

I’m sorry, but that IS a fact. I showed you that fact many pages ago. It doesn’t mean that they are ALWAYS cheaper, but they most certainly CAN be. Again, reading comprehension for the win.

 

[K4fxd]

but they most certainly CAN be

I happened to run into a guy who's company is trying to find a solution to the flaking paint on windmills. It seems the reason MANY wind mills are not running is due to paint contaminating the turbines. So far the cost just for Indiana is 30 million +.

Are you factoring things like this in your equation?

 

[K4fxd]

Not crickets.
If you’d stop pretending that extracting fossil fuels isn’t also killing people, that would be a good start.

Never said people do not die or get hurt. As far as I know no kids are forced to drill for oil.

If ysyd also accept that the emissions from burning them can cause respiratory issues, that would also be good.

The air is so clean today people from 1900 wouldn't believe it. At least here in the US.

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

Muh environment.

https://news.yahoo.com/co2-cuts-v-cash-climate-014720130.html

“But their drive for more ambitious reductions is undercut by the yawning gap between the comparatively small amounts of money mobilised by rich nations historically responsible for global warming and the trillions needed by developing nations to green their economies and cope with existing climate impacts, or ’loss and damage’.

- From billions to trillions -“

 

[Burkey]

I happened to run into a guy who's company is trying to find a solution to the flaking paint on windmills. It seems the reason MANY wind mills are not running is due to paint contaminating the turbines. So far the cost just for Indiana is 30 million +.

Are you factoring things like this in your equation?

I’m talking to people in the industry who are making projections WELL into the future. The expectation is that as renewables replace fossil fuels, that the cost of energy will go down, as it has continued to do in countries where renewable expansion is booming. These are facts. They have the evidence. Will it apply everywhere, equally, at all times? No.

But don’t take my word for it, here’s the University of New South Wales (seriously, I could go to almost any academic institution and get the same result) with their ”take” (factual analysis) on the situation.

“It is now much more cost-effective to build and run a wind farm or solar array, rather than a new fossil-fuelled power plant.

Once a wind or solar farm is in place, the generation of electricity from them costs virtually nothing. That obviously is not the case when coal and gas has to be continually extracted from the ground to provide power, as has been the case historically.

A 2021 report from Bloomberg New Energy Finance calculated that electricity from a brand new wind farm would cost $80/MWh to produce. That’s in comparison to $116/MWh from a new gas baseload power plant, and $143/MWh from a coal-fired power station”

FACTS MATTER.
But seriously, you should read the entire story because it does actually provide some insight into how a properly functioning grid operates. Maybe part,of,the reason you guys are having outages is because you don’t have that, not because renewables suck.

Yes, it costs a lot of money to build that grid, but it also creates a LOT of well paying jobs.

https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/s...,more efficient renewable energy technologies.

 

[Vlad Soare]

I happened to run into a guy who's company is trying to find a solution to the flaking paint on windmills. It seems the reason MANY wind mills are not running is due to paint contaminating the turbines. So far the cost just for Indiana is 30 million +.

Stupid question perhaps, but why must they be painted in the first place? Make them from stainless steel, or aluminium, or whatever other metal that can withstand the elements, and call it a day.

I’m talking to people in the industry who are making projections WELL into the future. The expectation is that as renewables replace fossil fuels, that the cost of energy will go down, as it has continued to do in countries where renewable expansion is booming. These are facts.

Huh? Projections into the future and expectations aren't facts.
Unless you mean the fact that they are actually making these projections.

 

[sk47]

.

A 2021 report from Bloomberg New Energy Finance calculated that electricity from a brand new wind farm would cost $80/MWh to produce. That’s in comparison to $116/MWh from a new gas baseload power plant, and $143/MWh from a coal-fired power station”

FACTS MATTER.

Hello; Nice try. That you use the modifier "new" trips up the argument. Facts do matter. One fact is many coal and natural gas power plants already exist so do not have to be built. Their carbon footprint from the building of them is already in the atmosphere. Same for existing alreadybuilt coal plants.
The building of a brand new wind farm puts a load of carbon debt into the atmosphere from the construction. It is not apples to apples. It is new build to already existing power plant except of course for your favored China.

Read a couple of articles recently about how maintaining older ICE vehicles does more to help the Co2 levels in the air that building brand new BEV's. The carbon debt from the manufacture of a vehicle exists no matter if it is a new BEV or a new ICE. The articles suggest something like six or eight years of keeping an old ICE is a decent time frame if memory serves. My 22 year old Sentra and 19 year old pickup are multiple times beyond such a time frame. The idea is if i can keep them in good running order the emissions from driving them is less than the emission from building two brand new BEV vehicles.
The idea is to keep using the older power plants and older ICE vehicles while keeping them as sound as possible in terms of emissions rather than going directly to new built green and BEV's. Replace the old with new stuff when they get to the end of their useful working life.

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