GM is pulling back on EVs

[Burkey]

So, let me get this straight. What you're saying is that you're a selfish person and made a choice based solely on your own needs, and now you wish that the government forced you to make the 'right' decision against your will, because you're too weak to make it of your own accord.

Burkey: "I can't buy an EV, because the nearest dealership is hundreds of miles away".
Government: "So what? Just drive hundreds of miles, we don't care, that's your problem".
Burkey: "Oh, thank you, thank you, it's so kind of you to set me straight and save me from myself".

Really?

Yes, I’m selfish. We all are. It’s part of the human condition.
We’ve got people here who are worried about their lives being inconvenienced slightly (myself included) while others are literally starving to death.

Anyways, once the mandates are in place, the vehicle we need will be available at a local dealership. THAT is the point.

Did you miss the bit where Ford aren’t currently offering the Everest in an EV derivative because the car isn’t sold in Europe? What do you glean from that? What I take from that is this: EV’s haven’t caught on in markets outside of Europe to the extent that they can justify a new platform at this point in time. Give it a few years and the situation will most certainly change. We can thank the mandates for that.

So, let me get this straight. What you're saying is that you're a selfish person and made a choice based solely on your own needs, having decided that an EV won't meet them, and now you wish that the government forced you to be a good boy and make the 'right' decision against your will, because you're too weak to make it yourself.

Burkey: "I'd love an EV, but I can't buy one, because the nearest dealership is hundreds of miles away".
Government: "So what? Just drive hundreds of miles, we don't care, that's your problem".
Burkey: "Oh, thank you, it's so kind of you to set me straight and save me from myself".

Really?

Well yeah, of course I’m selfish. We all are.
The point you and your brethren are missing is that the car we wanted would already be available if the mandates were already in place. But because the car manufacturers haven’t been forced as yet, it isn‘t available yet. Pretty simple concept.

Sponsored

 

[Burkey]

Doesn't matter. If in 2030ish there are enough dealerships all over the country, then Burkey will buy an EV of his own accord. No need for the government to forcefully remove all his other options just to stop him from making the 'wrong' choice.

Besides, 2030ish is like tomorrow.

See my recent reply.
EDIT: 2030 is a long way away in terms of technology development and deployment.

 

[K4fxd]

But because the car manufacturers haven’t been forced as yet, it isn‘t available yet. Pretty simple concept.

The other side of that coin is people DON"T WANT THEM. If there was enough demand Ford or whoever would make them.

 

[sk47]

Tesla Semi and Nikola Tre are already capable of interstate commerce. They both have more than 300 mile range and availability to commercial vehicle charging networks with fast charge capability. Some of the network is in place now, some of it is in the process of being built out. When you look at the customers that are buying these vehicles, the cargo tends to be large and light (cases of beverages and salty snacks, consumer goods packages) so it is more about filling the cubic foot capacity than it is about maxing out the GVW. So they won’t be capable of replacing all diesel yet, but they can replace a good number of them for both intrastate and interstate commerce.

Diesel will still be around for a good while. At least until battery power density improves to the point that the same range can be delivered with smaller lighter batteries. Or until fuel cell powered semis (Nikola, Hyundai, Toyota) make it to market. Of course, there’s an infrastructure problem there too, but if the industry focuses on interstate locations for hydrogen reforming they might be able to run a play there.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1139569_toyota-and-
hyundai-broaden-fuel-cell-semi-plans-for-us

https://www.nikolamotor.com/press_r...infrastructure-funding-for-up-to-50-stations/

Guessing you don’t have an answer.

GM, EVGo, and Pilot / Flying J partner to build EV Charging network

Volvo and Pilot / Flying J plan to install commercial vehicle charging network

So what that means is that BEV semis traveling more than 500 miles can either stop at a Pilot / Flying J and get 70% charge in 30 minutes, or they can spend the night in their sleeper cabs overnight (like diesel drivers do today) and get 100% charge while they sleep, then off for another 300-500 miles. Pretty easy to deliver interstate using that process

Hello; Whether the BEV is a coupe, SUV or convertible is a silly peg to hang that hat on. Does not matter the style of the BEV, more can it do what an ICE does with ease.
Hello; 300 mile range is not much for a semi. Might work if every offload spot had scores of chargers ready and open. Another someday thing. Get back when a driver can flip a coin to decide about which tractor to use to haul 30,000 pounds of steel 2,000 miles. By flip a coin I mean it wont make any difference if the tractor is BEV or ICE.
Hello; The 300 mile range is more like 210 miles if you only charge to 70% at a fast charger. The 70% charge is a limit to keep from doing damage to the battery.
Hello; The idea that the trucks can charge while the drivers sleep is a good sound bite. I have seen the stops full of parked rigs over the years. I do not travel so much any more so may have missed the rows of chargers to service all those trucks. Won't help the team drivers who switch out driving and sleeping in the back while keeping the rig going. Oh. Oh. I forget the big over the road BEV's do not yet have capacity to haul much weight.

 

[Burkey]

The other side of that coin is people DON"T WANT THEM. If there was enough demand Ford or whoever would make them.

Whilst your statement is probably true, it’s quite clear that the numbers are skewing RAPIDLY. If you’d run a poll 10 years ago you wouldn’t have the result they saw in a recent Australian poll:

”in a recent survey, 42 per cent of Australians said they would buy an electric vehicle (EV) next time they buy a car. The shift in consumer sentiment towards EVs from just five years ago indicates many more people are now willing to take action to reduce their road-transport carbon emissions.”

It raises a question though, doesn’t it? Why, if the demand has increased so much, are we not seeing the sales?
I think the answer may have more than a few options.
One of those options might be that there simply isn’t enough variety of EV’s on offer in THIS country. Like the US, we love our SUV’s and frankly, it’s the segment that has been most ignored by the bigger players.

I wonder what the poll results might be in 5 and 10 years time, once range and charging infrastructure has improved, along with reduced purchase prices….

Oh yes, but that’s “someday”…. It’s not like it’s happened in literally nearly every other tech sector that ever existed….

 

[sk47]

Well yeah, of course I’m selfish. We all are.
The point you and your brethren are missing is that the car we wanted would already be available if the mandates were already in place. But because the car manufacturers haven’t been forced as yet, it isn‘t available yet. Pretty simple concept.

Hello; An interesting take on how things work. I recall back in 1970 when i got my first job out of college. In the USA the president put a price and wage freeze in place. Prices were frozen on some things and you did not get a raise at all. Lasted around two years.
Worked in a way. I was due to get experience raises but did not for the time. They even managed to hold me out of a raise for an extra six months because i started in the middle of a school term.
The price freeze mostly meant things were hard to come by. Funny how a business would decide to stop or slow down production if they could not make a profit. So, they would stop overtime or maybe drop a shift or two. You know keep production costs lower. Was not very popular.

Here is a possible take as to why such a BEV vehicle is not available to you. To make such a long range behemoth vehicle would have to have massive batteries and be super expensive.

I get the idea you propose. That somehow anything wanted can simply be mandated. Pretty sure there is a flaw in the idea. I will have to think about this some more. Some memory is trying to float to the surface.

 

[K4fxd]

Oh yes, but that’s “someday”…. It’s not like it’s happened in literally nearly every other tech sector that ever existed….

No other tech sector has been forced upon us.

 

[Burkey]

Here is a possible take as to why such a BEV vehicle is not available to you. To make such a long range behemoth vehicle would have to have massive batteries and be super expensive.

I’d be happy with a hybrid at this stage.
If the Ranger had 2 more seats we’d be buying that.

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/ford-ranger-plug-in-hybrid-coming-2024

 

[Burkey]

No other tech sector has been forced upon us.

You’re joking right? Just take a moment to think about the technologies that have been MANDATED in cars alone.

 

[K4fxd]

You’re joking right?

Nice try.

This BEV thing is like trying to force us back to using Horses.

Or making tube TV's again. Or forcing us back to using dial up internet.

 

[sk47]

You’re joking right? Just take a moment to think about the technologies that have been MANDATED in cars alone.

Hello; Two or three things on this. First i get what you are driving at. I recall when a high school friend got the keys to the family 1964 Ford Galaxy 500. He took me for a ride . First car I was ever in with seatbelts. He wrecked the car that night. We survived. I soon after installed seat belts in my families 1955 Pontiac. Soon enough all cars had seatbelts, then air bags and such. While I get your point and have to concede you called it, I also contend these anti ICE mandates are of a different class of thing. Mandating BEV's is not making things safer nor is it giving us better vehicles. In fact in their present state the BEV is a big step backward for vehicles.
Second thing is back in the 1970's and 80's it was easy to buy a vehicle capable of getting over 40 MPG. Now with a load of government mandated items added to vehicles the MPG's are overall worse. This with the engine management tech such as Fi and direct injection which is a lot more efficient than the carbs. So, mandates cut both ways and not often to the better.

maybe the government can mandate the BEV problems away. Have them mandate that they get 500 miles per charge & charge in ten minutes & mandate that the batteries are lighter. Also mandate that a BEV is cheaper to buy than an ICE. Mandate that when the EV battery pack is old and shot you can still get good trade in value rather than just throwing it away. ( I am being silly of course, but this mandate will fix things idea strikes me as silly anyway. )

 

[sk47]

Nice try.

This BEV thing is like trying to force us back to using Horses.

Or making tube TV's again. Or forcing us back to using dial up internet.

Hello; You beat me to it with a better set of examples.

 

[K4fxd]

Have them mandate that they get 500 miles per charge & charge in ten minutes & mandate that the batteries are lighter. Also mandate that a BEV is cheaper to buy than an ICE. Mandate that when the EV battery pack is old and shot you can still get good trade in value rather than just throwing it away.

Unfortunately there are people who believe this can and will happen.

 

[sk47]

Yes, I’m selfish. We all are. It’s part of the human condition.
We’ve got people here who are worried about their lives being inconvenienced slightly (myself included) while others are literally starving to death.

Anyways, once the mandates are in place, the vehicle we need will be available at a local dealership. THAT is the point.

Did you miss the bit where Ford aren’t currently offering the Everest in an EV derivative because the car isn’t sold in Europe? What do you glean from that? What I take from that is this: EV’s haven’t caught on in markets outside of Europe to the extent that they can justify a new platform at this point in time. Give it a few years and the situation will most certainly change. We can thank the mandates for that.

Well yeah, of course I’m selfish. We all are.
The point you and your brethren are missing is that the car we wanted would already be available if the mandates were already in place. But because the car manufacturers haven’t been forced as yet, it isn‘t available yet. Pretty simple concept.

Hello; A thing fascinates me. This being you prefer to be thought of as selfish rather than to be thought of as wise for buying an ICE. I understand you want to champion the cause, I do not understand the why exactly. But when the time cam came you made the proper and wise choice. You got a vehicle that will work for you and the family and not some virtue signaling wantabee. You did good, revel in it.

 

[martinjlm]

All this talk about “mandate”. Today BEV sales are increasing at double digit rates year over year (CAGR is 22%). Two of the top 10 selling vehicles in the country are BEV, including the number 1 selling vehicle. What are the “mandates” in place today forcing people to buy these cars?

Sponsored