GM is pulling back on EVs

[sk47]

Yes, his excuses of buying an ICE vehicle, after all of his lecturing about the virtues of green technology, have been epic. It reminds me of Gore, Gates and Kerry trying to convince us that it’s OK for them to have massive carbon footprints, while at the same time scolding the unwashed masses about the importance protecting the environment. I call it “greensplaining.” They think they’re entitled to a free pass due to their continuous virtue signaling.

Hello; "Greensplaining", I like it.
I do not blame Burkey for buying an ICE at all, only find fault with his preaching a different tune in the posts. Thing is almost everyone who has a BEV will have to deal with some sort of inconvenience. Having to install a home charger is enough extra trouble on its own. Some will be able to make a BEV fit their lifestyle easier than others. Some like Johnny on the 5th floor will have huge problems.

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[sk47]

Now that right there is FUNNY!

Hello; Cleaner - consider all the back and forth about his take on per-capita emissions in China. About his rejection of the carbon-debt from the initial manufacture & construction of a single wind turbine. Pick a few other examples of looking at green energy & EV's thru rose colored glasses.
Cheaper- I guess so if your fellow citizens are paying part of the cost of the BEV. A thing is, if memory serves, he already has solar on his place. That would make have an EV some cheaper yet he got an ICE. I also guess he dismissed the links i posted laying out the costs and/or supply problems of the grids around the world.

 

[key01]

Wind power was Britain's largest source of electricity in first quarter of 2023
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/12/win...are|com.apple.UIKit.activity.CopyToPasteboard

 

[sk47]

Heat pumps are starting to look like a conspiracy against the public (msn.com)

Hello; The link title is a bit dramatic but such is common to grab attention. The story is of interest. Not exactly new information fro folks like me who has lived with a heat pump for 13 years now. They work fine at mild temperatures and worse at the coldest temperatures.
They also switch over to AUX heat at really cold outside temps. The heat pump cannot supply enough thermal transfer from very cold air so switch on strips of resistance heaters. Runs the cost way up.

A sort of new thing to me was learning that so many British homes do not have insulation and/or are so very hard to insulate because the walls are solid. Homes can be hundreds of years old. I helped out in my current home by adding insulation in walls and the attic.

 

[K4fxd]

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/tesla-owners-sue-software-updates-181300109.html

I've heard of updates bricking cell phones, now cars too?

 

[Burkey]

Hello; I get that i touch a nerve when i rag about your new ICE. It is just the irony of all the lectures you post then go against the future best interest of your own family. Add to that irony the avatar of a mustang doing a massive burnout.

As I said, you’re a very simple man.
If you spent 5 seconds thinking about it, you’d realise that my purchase is a particularly good example PRECISELY why mandates are needed. When even people who accept the science are still buying ICE vehicle it should be quite apparent as to why a mandate is required. But no, you opted to miss that particular gem.

You seem to think that I’m holding myself to a different standard than the masses. I am the masses. Most people understand and accept what the scientists are saying. That is the majority view, both in public and in scientific arenas and yet they continue to bat which is agains their best interests. Maybe it’s part of the human condition?

Hell, I used to smoke, despite being ACUTELY aware of the harm it would eventually cause me. The numbers you quoted were a direct reflection of that same situation. Most people are well aware that they need to make some changes, but most people are NOT making those changes. THAT was the point that you missed.

The parallel here is that it’s almost impossible to find a properly educated person who doesn’t believe that smoking increases the risk of cancer. It’s the same story for climate change. Yes, you’ll find the odd scientist here and there who will deny it, but you’ll also find the odd scientist (or doctor) who denies the link between cancer and smoking. Do you take THEM seriously? What’s the difference? I’d say it’s about 20-30 years.
In the very near future there will be very few people who dispute any of this. It will be as commonly accepted as the smoking/cancer thing, but there will always be those who think they know better.

 

[Burkey]

Now that right there is FUNNY!

The funny thing is that you think I’m wrong.
Facts don’t care about your feelings.

https://www.energy.gov.au/news-media/news/renewables-confirmed-cheapest-source-electricity

https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/renewables-cheapest-form-power

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/07/renewables-cheapest-energy-source/

 

[K4fxd]

"The report concluded that once the current inflationary cycle ends"

So another "someday" like SK47 says.

"Amid climbing fossil fuel prices, "

So it is cheaper only if we artificially inflate fossil fuel prices.

"Renewables are now significantly undercutting fossil fuels as the world’s cheapest source of energy, according to a new report"

Only no link to the report

 

[Burkey]

"The report concluded that once the current inflationary cycle ends"

So another "someday" like SK47 says.

"Amid climbing fossil fuel prices, "

So it is cheaper only if we artificially inflate fossil fuel prices.

"Renewables are now significantly undercutting fossil fuels as the world’s cheapest source of energy, according to a new report"

Only no link to the report

How did I know you’d find a way of misunderstanding it? Predictable. No, it’s not the result of “artificially inflating fossil fuel prices”. It’s the result of technology.

Yes, “someday renewables will produce cheaper power than fossil fuels”. That’s what people were saying 20 years ago, even 5 years ago. That”someday“ has already arrived and if you hadn’t already worked it out, using cheaper power to manufacture the panels/turbines, makes them cheaper to produce (Using solar or wind to manufacture panels and turbines)then add in the constantly improving efficiencies of those units and you have in front of you EXACTLY what was predicted to happen.

I‘ll link a different piece that actually goes deeper into the issue. Let’s see if you can find a way of misunderstanding that one also.

In the meantime, here’s a picture that illustrates just how much cheaper renewable have become over the past 10 years. Take note of how fossil fuels haven’t followed anything like the same trajectory, nor are they expected to. I wonder what solar and wind might be doing in another 10 years? Imagine not having your electricity cost dictated by the wars and disputes taking place in other countries.

Remember, this chart is from 2019, BEFORE Covid. So you can forget about “artificial inflation” as the cause. The other way of looking at it is that there’s even MORE reason to go renewable now that the price of fossil fuels has made them completely uncompetitive.

https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

 

[K4fxd]

Take note of how fossil fuels haven’t followed anything like the same trajectory,

That is due to politics and greed. Without those two things gas would be at or below 2 dollars a gallon. With oil at or below 30 a barrel everything will come down in cost, even so called green energy.

I'll look at your links and dissect them for you later.

 

[sk47]

realise that my purchase is a particularly good example PRECISELY why mandates are needed. When even people who accept the science are still buying ICE vehicle it should be quite apparent as to why a mandate is required. But no, you opted to miss that particular gem.

You seem to think that I’m holding myself to a different standard than the masses. I am the masses.

Hello; So mandates are needed for you to do the thing you are already on board with. After looking at the state of BEV's and your personal situation the decision was to do the smart thing and buy an ICE. I get it. Many get it. Currently you still have a choice to make a decision which best suits the needs of your family. Come mandate time that choice will go away.

Sure, I accept your take that people who accept the science are still buying ICE. That ought to be a clue about the state of BEV's. A thing it appears you overlook is the mandates will not stop at BEV's, or gas stoves, or lawnmowers, or meat & dairy. Give such a power to the ruling crews and they will wield it broadly and a lot.

So Fauci was the science and you are the masses. Gott love it. Enjoy the ICE.

 

[sk47]

Hello; So mandates are needed for you to do the thing you are already on board with. After looking at the state of BEV's and your personal situation the decision was to do the smart thing and buy an ICE. I get it. Many get it. Currently you still have a choice to make a decision which best suits the needs of your family. Come mandate time that choice will go away.

Sure, I accept your take that people who accept the science are still buying ICE. That ought to be a clue about the state of BEV's. A thing it appears you overlook is the mandates will not stop at BEV's, or gas stoves, or lawnmowers, or meat & dairy. Give such a power to the ruling crews and they will wield it broadly and a lot.

So Fauci was the science and you are the masses. Gott love it. Enjoy the ICE.

Hello; Another way to look at Burkey's stance & actions. He claims to have accepted the science and concludes the BEV & green energy is the way to save the planet.
When it gets down to brass tacks, he wimps out on strongly held beliefs and buys an ICE. Then this statement.

quote Burkey "If you spent 5 seconds thinking about it, you’d realise that my purchase is a particularly good example PRECISELY why mandates are needed. "

Question becomes just how would the named "needed mandates" have changed the situation he found himself in? Say there was such a mandate which did not allow him the option of buying an ICE. How would the shortcomings of a BEV be at all changed. When I think about it the reasons he picked the ICE would still exist and no BEV would suit his family needs.
I guess perhaps he means he would have to suffer with an inadequate BEV because mandates would leave him no choice. I also surmise he wishes the same for the rest of us.
An Irony is for me personally a BEV is mostly doable. Too expensive to be sure and if the thing did not burn my house down, I could do over 90% of my driving with a home charge.

 

[Burkey]

That is due to politics and greed. Without those two things gas would be at or below 2 dollars a gallon. With oil at or below 30 a barrel everything will come down in cost, even so called green energy.

I'll look at your links and dissect them for you later.

I’m not sure how subsidising oil and gas to the tune of $20 billion annually constitutes some form of “artificial inflation”. I’d say it’s white the reverse. They’ve been given an unfair advantage and yet somehow they’re squandering it.

You know that prices have gone up globally right? Are all governments in on this tactic?

https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fa...-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs

 

[Burkey]

Hello; Another way to look at Burkey's stance & actions. He claims to have accepted the science and concludes the BEV & green energy is the way to save the planet.
When it gets down to brass tacks, he wimps out on strongly held beliefs and buys an ICE. Then this statement.

quote Burkey "If you spent 5 seconds thinking about it, you’d realise that my purchase is a particularly good example PRECISELY why mandates are needed. "

Question becomes just how would the named "needed mandates" have changed the situation he found himself in? Say there was such a mandate which did not allow him the option of buying an ICE. How would the shortcomings of a BEV be at all changed. When I think about it the reasons he picked the ICE would still exist and no BEV would suit his family needs.
I guess perhaps he means he would have to suffer with an inadequate BEV because mandates would leave him no choice. I also surmise he wishes the same for the rest of us.
An Irony is for me personally a BEV is mostly doable. Too expensive to be sure and if the thing did not burn my house down, I could do over 90% of my driving with a home charge.

Well….there’s a few options.
We could either:

1. Buy an EV from a manufacturer who doesn’t have a dealership in our area. Inconvenience? Only a problem if the car suffers a warranty issue, but a HUGE problem (for us) if that occurs. It is literally the most important aspect of the equation when the dealership is 300 miles away. Not so bad if the car is able to be driven, not so good when you’re burdened with the cost and time of transporting it.

2. Alter the parameters of the purchase. Move from 7 seats to 5. Inconvenience? Only if you want to carry more than 5 people (rare, but it happens)

3. Remove 4wd from the equation. Inconvenience? Only if you want to go off-roading.

Pretty easy to get around the problem IF you’re willing to make a concession.
As I said, most people aren’t willing to make a concession. I’m living proof of that.

Now, if there were such a vehicle available at a local dealership, we would have bought it. Mandates make it much more likely for that vehicle to be available. Ford wouldn’t have an option of ignoring the 4wd+7 seats+ towing capacity market. Well, not if they want to sell cars.

 

[sk47]

Well….there’s a few options.
We could either:

1. Buy an EV from a manufacturer who doesn’t have a dealership in our area. Inconvenience? Only a problem if the car suffers a warranty issue, but a HUGE problem (for us) if that occurs. It is literally the most important aspect of the equation when the dealership is 300 miles away. Not so bad if the car is able to be driven, not so good when you’re burdened with the cost and time of transporting it.

2. Alter the parameters of the purchase. Move from 7 seats to 5. Inconvenience? Only if you want to carry more than 5 people (rare, but it happens)

3. Remove 4wd from the equation. Inconvenience? Only if you want to go off-roading.

Pretty easy to get around the problem IF you’re willing to make a concession.
As I said, most people aren’t willing to make a concession. I’m living proof of that.

Now, if there were such a vehicle available at a local dealership, we would have bought it. Mandates make it much more likely for that vehicle to be available. Ford wouldn’t have an option of ignoring the 4wd+7 seats+ towing capacity market. Well, not if they want to sell cars.

Hello; Fascinating. You write several lines explaining how no BEV exists in your area that can meet your needs. I read and understand just what you mean. Some level of such things you call "inconvenience" problems exist for most of us with BEV's. That is even before the extra expense is added in.

Then you make a statement hard to understand. That somehow "mandates" would have fixed the issues. Of course, Ford can choose to ignore a segment of the buying public. They do it already. I want a small sedan. In fact, the Ford Focus was a car I looked to buy. I passed on the Focus ST because i did not want a turbo engine. I looked for a Focus SE with a manual trans. They made a package with disc brakes front and rear. I missed the last of those. Now the Mustang is the only non-SUV they make any more, I think.

One of the characteristics of someone who truly believes in the dire prospects of "climate change" and also believes that "green energy" and BEV's are the ways to save the planet is they will make the sacrifices needed. Of course, so far, you do not have to make the sacrifice as the restrictive mandates are not yet in place.
When the mandates and other restrictions are truly in place there will be many others who need a vehicle type which no BEV can match. They will not have an option.

But you keep on trying to justify the purchase of an ICE while at the same time preaching "green & BEV" mantras. I can admire someone who sticks to a creed/belief even when I disagree with that creed/belief. I recall the monks in southeast Asia immolating themselves with gasoline to protest. I thought it was an absurd thing to do, but I grudgingly had to admire that they walked the walk of what they believed. I get it though. Standing up for your green & EV beliefs would have been inconvenient.

Enjoy the ICE.

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