GM is pulling back on EVs

[Burkey]

Hello; you actually answered clearly in the first paragraph for the most part. The Japanese do have a known culture of their own. Been that way for a long time. I do not know about investment per capita part with regard to how clean a public toilet may be.

Then you had to throw in a spoiler comment. The guy from Australia also throws in digs at outher countries, or is it just USA like you???

To be fair, I also have a dig at Australia when it’s required. Please don’t feel like you’re receiving special treatment on that front.

As always, there are some areas where we do better than others and some in which we’re lagging. That’s the nature of the beast though is it not?

A perfect country doesn’t exist as far as I can see.

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[AZlb5.0]

Nothing to do with the size of the country at all! Down to the behaviour and attitude of the residents regarding cleanliness and safety and the investment in infrastructure per capita on how well the system works.

Hey, if you want to use 'we're a big country so everything is poor and half built' then crack on

I think we have way too many financial responsibilities as a country.

 

[sk47]

I think we have way too many financial responsibilities as a country.

Hello; Saw something about the national debt recently. The bit that caught my eye is what the debt breaks down to for each taxpayer at over 200 grand. But for each citizen it is something like 29 grand if memory serves. Numbers are likely off.
Point to me is the vast difference between taxpayers and citizens. I get those citizens under 16 do not work and pay taxes. Still leaves a lot of over 16 who do not pay any taxes I am pretty sure.

How to link this to the EV topic??? How about these EV incentives funneling tax dollars ( perhaps ought to have a different name. Maybe tax debt dollars???) away from other things.
My take is something like half of working age adults apparently do not work and pay taxes. Leaving the burden on the half or so who do actually work and try to make a living. Decent enough link????

 

[AZlb5.0]

Hello; Saw something about the national debt recently. The bit that caught my eye is what the debt breaks down to for each taxpayer at over 200 grand. But for each citizen it is something like 29 grand if memory serves. Numbers are likely off.
Point to me is the vast difference between taxpayers and citizens. I get those citizens under 16 do not work and pay taxes. Still leaves a lot of over 16 who do not pay any taxes I am pretty sure.

How to link this to the EV topic??? How about these EV incentives funneling tax dollars ( perhaps ought to have a different name. Maybe tax debt dollars???) away from other things.
My take is something like half of working age adults apparently do not work and pay taxes. Leaving the burden on the half or so who do actually work and try to make a living. Decent enough link????

Exactly why do people get tax money to buy a car for personal use? Since when was that the in thing?

 

[sk47]

Driving 100 Miles in an EV Is Now More Expensive Than in an ICE (msn.com)
Hello; Another one bites the dust.

 

[Burkey]

Driving 100 Miles in an EV Is Now More Expensive Than in an ICE (msn.com)
Hello; Another one bites the dust.

Did you actually read the study?
What did you learn from it?
Did you do your own math or did you just trust theirs?
As a former science teacher, I’m sure you reviewed the study properly to make sure that it was accurate, right?

The first thing I learned was that the average American gets paid $70k per year. I’m fairly sure that’ll be news to the average American. I’m assuming they
literally mean the average, rather than the median (which would be a far better stat to use if that stat had any value whatsoever, which it doesn’t, as we’re about to see).
You’ll also discover that they attach what we might call an “opportunity cost” to the refuelling of the vehicle, based on that $70k figure that we just discussed.

Then, you need to assume that 40% of charging takes place away from home and that (presumably) all of the charging that DOES take place at home is paid for in full (no PV on roof)….

I’d suggest you actually run your own figures. I did and was quite surprised to learn that I could reduce my running costs by more than $4k per year (assuming 12,000 miles annually) by driving a Tesla 3. That’s without allowing for any savings produced from charging via the excess power from the solar panels on the roof at home, which would make the actual running cost of the Tesla zero, other than the lost revenue (which is minimal) from feeding exceeds power back into the grid and the road tax.

Add $0.025 per km for our road tax on BEV’s and you arrive at a total cost of (19,300 x 0.025) $482.50 to travel 12,000 miles.

The Mustang would burn through 3,000 litres of fuel over that distance, costing $5,000 at pre-covid prices.
Then add two oil and filter changes as well.

As I said though, do your own math. Trust NOBODY, including me. I’m sure your circumstance is vastly different to mine.

 

[Gregs24]

Did you actually read the study?
What did you learn from it?
Did you do your own math or did you just trust theirs?
As a former science teacher, I’m sure you reviewed the study properly to make sure that it was accurate, right?

The first thing I learned was that the average American gets paid $70k per year. I’m fairly sure that’ll be news to the average American. I’m assuming they
literally mean the average, rather than the median (which would be a far better stat to use if that stat had any value whatsoever, which it doesn’t, as we’re about to see).
You’ll also discover that they attach what we might call an “opportunity cost” to the refuelling of the vehicle, based on that $70k figure that we just discussed.

Then, you need to assume that 40% of charging takes place away from home and that (presumably) all of the charging that DOES take place at home is paid for in full (no PV on roof)….

I’d suggest you actually run your own figures. I did and was quite surprised to learn that I could reduce my running costs by more than $4k per year (assuming 12,000 miles annually) by driving a Tesla 3. That’s without allowing for any savings produced from charging via the excess power from the solar panels on the roof at home, which would make the actual running cost of the Tesla zero, other than the lost revenue (which is minimal) from feeding exceeds power back into the grid and the road tax.

Add $0.025 per km for our road tax on BEV’s and you arrive at a total cost of (19,300 x 0.025) $482.50 to travel 12,000 miles.

The Mustang would burn through 3,000 litres of fuel over that distance, costing $5,000 at pre-covid prices.
Then add two oil and filter changes as well.

As I said though, do your own math. Trust NOBODY, including me. I’m sure your circumstance is vastly different to mine.

The one I ignore was a Biology teacher not a Mathematics teacher!

We save a fortune running our PHEV compared to the old diesel. Not even close.

No subsidy on the purchase or any tax subsidy.

It does amuse me how an old man driving a clapped out van thinks he knows better than somebody who actually owns a PHEV!

 

[Gregs24]

I think we have way too many financial responsibilities as a country.

I believe the point you are getting at is ...

List of development aid sovereign state donors - Wikipedia

Japan spends more on development aid to other countries than the US on a per capita basis and as a percentage of Gross National Income. They still manage to invest in their own infrastructure.

 

[Gregs24]

Exactly why do people get tax money to buy a car for personal use? Since when was that the in thing?

Governments use taxation, (tax or subsidy) to encourage people to change their habits in a way that benefits society. This happens all the time everywhere. It has ALWAYS been 'a thing'

A good example is the plastic bag tax in the UK which has massively reduced the amount of single use plastic going to landfill. Another would be subsidies on the installation of insulation for houses to reduce energy bills for the homeowner (personal use) as well as reducing CO2 production / pollution. Here is an example in your country How to Apply for Weatherization Assistance | Department of Energy

Oh I expect this all offends your freedoms, but get over yourself

 

[sk47]

Driving 100 Miles in an EV Is Now More Expensive Than in an ICE (msn.com)
Hello; Another one bites the dust.

Hello; The usual suspects chimed in as any can read about above. Funny how one found a way to imagine so many things could be attached to me when all I wrote is shown above.
The other managed to throw in a personal put down.

One thing i have learned from these online forums is to post the link so anyone can read for themselves. I do sometimes add my own comments but did not do much with this one. Just a line from a Queen tune. I did not add any quotes.

I dd find two comments of interest. First something on the order that I must drive an PHEV to be able to know about them. Haven't these two been lauding the state of battery EV's for months now? Do they actually have one? Anyway, I left such to the authors of the study and made no comments. Guess they failed to notice.

My comment is I personally do not have the ability to know if the link is spot on. I do hope the authors did due diligence in their study. Read the link and decide for yourself same as i can. Does seem some are touchy when information which appears to negate an EV claim shows up.

The overall belief system appears to be that "green energy" and BEV's are the hope to save the world in terms of the climate fifty or 100 years from now. That both of these green & EV systems are not currently ready to handle the load is not allowed to be a deterrent. The plan is to scrap the functioning fossil fuel-based energy/transportation system anyway and simply hope improvements come along with the green & EV platforms.
A partial problem with "green energy" and BEV's is they have environmental impacts of their own. Problems that cannot realistically be shoved under the rug and ignored. The gaps between fossil fuel impacts and green/EV impacts are being found not to be so wide as the champions would have us believe.
I cannot say the total green/EV package is not a bit cleaner than the total fossil fuel package. May turn out to be some cleaner. May turn out to be not that much cleaner overall. What i do have confidence in is the fossil fuel energy/transportation systems are proven to work and indeed do work.
I do not have confidence that the green energy and EV systems will be ready by the artificial deadlines so far imposed. (some by 2030) My preference is to phase in green energy as it is proven to work and be reliable, then after phase out the fossil fuel plants as they become no longer needed.

Similar for the BEV's. Let them show to be a better choice than an ICE. If the study i linked proves to be correct then the cost to charge an EV becomes a factor in the decision to own a BEV.

Sorry i got on a roll.

 

[kz]

Hello; The usual suspects chimed in as any can read about above. Funny how one found a way to imagine so many things could be attached to me when all I wrote is shown above.
The other managed to throw in a personal put down.

If you looked at that study, it is clearly biased with everything (literally) packed into the cost of driving EV over 100 miles - either meant to be a clickbait (you clearly got baited), lobbying by ICE / oil companies or both (most likely). That cost of electric charger has been distributed over how many miles exactly ? Doesn't say, does it ? I went and pulled actual study from the website of the company, admittedly didn't spend too much time over it but can't find how they distributed that cost (that in many states is incentivised currently btw)

" opportunity cost of waiting for vehicles to charge at stations"- LOL. They've also accounted for a really cheap gas (of course they did).

It has a whole bunch of assumptions for situation where ICE cars are completely replaced by EVs for roughly a year ago. That is not how people currently use EVs. At all.

I don't know what the cost of EV driving currently is in US, nor I really care that much, but try to apply some critical thinking to what you post, otherwise you'll be more and more (if it is even possible) perceived as a local troll that posts exclusively about how terrible EVs are. On a forum that is as far away from EVs as it is remotely possible.

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

I think we have way too many financial responsibilities as a country.

Our politicians are incompetent.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[sk47]

If you looked at that study, it is clearly biased with everything (literally) packed into the cost of driving EV over 100 miles - either meant to be a clickbait (you clearly got baited), lobbying by ICE / oil companies or both (most likely). That cost of electric charger has been distributed over how many miles exactly ? Doesn't say, does it ? I went and pulled actual study from the website of the company, admittedly didn't spend too much time over it but can't find how they distributed that cost (that in many states is incentivised currently btw)

" opportunity cost of waiting for vehicles to charge at stations"- LOL. They've also accounted for a really cheap gas (of course they did).

It has a whole bunch of assumptions for situation where ICE cars are completely replaced by EVs for roughly a year ago. That is not how people currently use EVs. At all.

I don't know what the cost of EV driving currently is in US, nor I really care that much, but try to apply some critical thinking to what you post, otherwise you'll be more and more (if it is even possible) perceived as a local troll that posts exclusively about how terrible EVs are. On a forum that is as far away from EVs as it is remotely possible.

Hello; With regard to the link about the cost to drive an EV 100 miles. I made only two direct comments about the content of the link.
Quotes of myself-
"My comment is I personally do not have the ability to know if the link is spot on. I do hope the authors did due diligence in their study." and "Another one bites the dust".

Hello; You have done exactly what I expect all to do which is read and decide for yourself. You have expounded greatly bout the content. Others can expand on your take about the cost of driving an EV.
Why you went on to throw in a put down about my ability to think and referred to me as a troll is a questionable and unnecessary thing to do. I have come to expect such from a few others, now from you.

Hello; I did make other comments of my own which had nothing to do with the cost of driving an EV and welcome a discussion about those comments.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Our politicians are incompetent.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

We have been borrowing money to make just the interest payment and have been for decades. All that debt keeps getting kicked down the road, and one day when it all explodes because it will, this country will be just like Venezuela. Absolutely irresponsible.

 

[tripleyellowmustang]

We have been borrowing money to make just the interest payment and have been for decades. All that debt keeps getting kicked down the road, and one day when it all explodes because it will, this country will be just like Venezuela. Absolutely irresponsible.

https://www.cato.org/blog/federal-debt-unfunded-entitlement-promises

Insanity.

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