GM is pulling back on EVs

[Strokerswild]

The problem here is we are shutting down perfectly good power plants and we are not replacing the lost generating capacity, while increasing demand.

A recipe for disaster.

....and avoiding and not building known solutions such as modern nuclear.

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[GT 550]

Maybe it's beyond the 'recipe' stage

 

[sk47]

No, they’re not to be overlooked. Conditions should be improved, along with the environmental impact.
Having said that, the same people who suggest that we shouldn’t be using cheap labour that comes off the back of people who aren't entitled to the same arrangements we’re accustomed too, don’t seem all that worried about other things being produced in sub-standard working conditions. Nor do they seem too worried about the environmental impact of drilling for fossil fuels, or the result of the burning of those fossil fuels.

Hello; This sounds like a deflection. From what i can gather over the decades lots of consumer products have sweatshops in the background. I can say that i do not like any child labor or other such sweatshop stuff if that makes any difference. I happen to live in a country where such no longer exists. Other than not purchasing such consumer goods there is little I can do. I will join in with you and we can declare we will not buy an EV because of the cobalt mines involved including child labor. Good enough deal?

Hypocrisy would be comfortably sitting at home in a pair of sweatshop sneakers/shirt/whatever without even giving it a second thought while clutching pearls in reaction to lithium mining practices in the third world and beyond.
Hello; last pair of sneakers i bought were NB. I asked the clerk if they still had any USA made shoes. I paid more to get shoes made in the USA. How that helps some guy working in a sweatshop in order to survive I am not sure. Enlighten me. I do not like the idea of a sweatshop but do understand doing what you have to do in order to survive.

Ironically, these are often the same people who think that a gas pipeline is a great idea. Yeah, that wouldn’t have environmental consequences…..
Hello; Ooo. Oooo. I know this one. The unfinished Keystone pipeline is a good example. Thing is the oil that the pipeline would have carried is still being delivered in railroad tanker cars. Odds are the pipeline is an environmentally safer way to transport the oil. First by the simple fact no big diesel -electric locomotives are emitting exhaust as the train hauling is currently doing. Second a much larger volume of oil could have been moved in the pipe so further reducing the overall impact by not needing those locomotives for moving crude.
Lastly it is my understanding the pipeline is the safer overall. Trains do wreck and derail. But these inconvenient facts did not help the agenda, did they??

They’re also often the same people who advocate for less government control and a free market. Well, guess what? This is what happens when the government exercises less power and the market is left to dictate terms and conditions….

Fortunately, none of us here are doing that though right?
Hello; Going to leave this one alone. More clearly a political rant than the others. Funny how you get to throw in political stuff others cannot.

 

[sk47]

Even Low-Milage Teslas Are Often Too Expensive to Fix (msn.com)
Hello; Not sure what to make of this.

 

[key01]

New all time profit record for Exxon Mobil and I’m sure all the others will report similar results for 2022. Ah, who’s worried about inflation…..
Geez, we got child labor problems on one side of the equation and record profits getting shoved down our throats on the other side. I think I’ll just ride a bike everywhere….

https://www.reuters.com/business/en...ngs-record-with-59-billion-profit-2023-01-31/

 

[sk47]

New all time profit record for Exxon Mobil and I’m sure all the others will report similar results for 2022. Ah, who’s worried about inflation…..
Geez, we got child labor problems on one side of the equation and record profits getting shoved down our throats on the other side. I think I’ll just ride a bike everywhere….

https://www.reuters.com/business/en...ngs-record-with-59-billion-profit-2023-01-31/

Hello; Companies are in business to make a profit. My guess is the companies which make solar panels, wind turbines, EV's and EV batteries will be trying to make a profit. If they happen to make a good profit will that also make them evil as you are implying Exxon Mobil is?
The price of fuel since 2020 is indeed part of inflation we consumers see for products. When the price of a gallon of diesel fuel goes up it affects everything hauled by trucks/railroads.
I am not convinced oil companies are solely responsible, however. I figured the massive spending/printing of money is the bigger part of inflation. Oil and other commodifies are more a victim of money printing than the cause of inflation.
Before someone chimes in that there are more factors in play let me say I do know this. But this sidetrack is up to others.

I live in TN. You apparently live in Chicago. Neither of us have anything to do with despicable child labor directly. I already do not plan to have an EV if any other choices remain. However, I will add child labor used in getting raw materials for the EV batteries to the list of my reasons if that helps. I am a bit confused about this turn in the discussion. I already favor ICE so this will not amount to much.
If the choice boils down to my using an ICE made from materials not associated with child labor or having a battery EV made with child labor abuses, guess the choice is so much easier.

 

[Burkey]

I’ll simply respond to one objection you raised, because a) It’s late here, and b) I’m in for surgery bright and early tomorrow morning, meaning that as much as i like to prioritise you in my life, I don’t have the energy right now.
Anyways, about my ”political rant”….

Dude, your entire thread is at political rant.
The science is pretty much done. Anthropogenic global warming is a thing. Your political persuasions don’t matter. Either prove it wrong in a respected, peer-reviewed journal or GTFO.
Nobody cares what you “believe” in the same way that you don’t care for Flat-Earthers opinions regarding the globe, or perhaps the lunar landing deniers.

PLENTY of conservatives accept this as a fact, maybe not in the US, but that just makes my point even clearer. What specifically separates a conservative in the US from a conservative in Australia, the UK or perhaps Canada? I have a fair idea, and its not the science. It’s political IDEOLOGY. Science doesn’t care where you’re from,

 

[Gregs24]

I’ll simply respond to one objection you raised, because a) It’s late here, and b) I’m in for surgery bright and early tomorrow morning, meaning that as much as i like to prioritise you in my life, I don’t have the energy right now.
Anyways, about my ”political rant”….

Dude, your entire thread is at political rant.
The science is pretty much done. Anthropogenic global warming is a thing. Your political persuasions don’t matter. Either prove it wrong in a respected, peer-reviewed journal or GTFO.
Nobody cares what you “believe” in the same way that you don’t care for Flat-Earthers opinions regarding the globe, or perhaps the lunar landing deniers.

PLENTY of conservatives accept this as a fact, maybe not in the US, but that just makes my point even clearer. What specifically separates a conservative in the US from a conservative in Australia, the UK or perhaps Canada? I have a fair idea, and its not the science. It’s political IDEOLOGY. Science doesn’t care where you’re from,

I couldn't have put it better.

It always amuses me when CC deniers argue against climate change existence, then say 'and even if it is so what'!

As you say it really doesn't matter what some uninformed politically motivated trolls believe - the world knows they are wrong. Don't waste your time on them.

Hope the surgery goes OK

 

[sk47]

I’ll simply respond to one objection you raised, because a) It’s late here, and b) I’m in for surgery bright and early tomorrow morning, meaning that as much as i like to prioritise you in my life, I don’t have the energy right now.
Anyways, about my ”political rant”….

Dude, your entire thread is at political rant.
The science is pretty much done. Anthropogenic global warming is a thing. Your political persuasions don’t matter. Either prove it wrong in a respected, peer-reviewed journal or GTFO.
Nobody cares what you “believe” in the same way that you don’t care for Flat-Earthers opinions regarding the globe, or perhaps the lunar landing deniers.

PLENTY of conservatives accept this as a fact, maybe not in the US, but that just makes my point even clearer. What specifically separates a conservative in the US from a conservative in Australia, the UK or perhaps Canada? I have a fair idea, and its not the science. It’s political IDEOLOGY. Science doesn’t care where you’re from,

Hello; Had to guess as to which post you are railing against. Chose a recent one in which i called your post a political rant. But you say entire thread so still confusing.

I do not see how you came to the notion my post is political, but so much of what you write is hard to follow. More to the point at hand. This particular rant of yours reminds me of similar posts during the heated Covid back and forth. I and others were similarly lambasted when we did not simply accept your and a couple other's take. Same deal where somehow you and the crew get to determine what evidence is acceptable.
Thing is for a number of pages early on in the science is cancelled thread several of us did post evidence & comments which disputed some of the man caused climate change agenda. In particular i studied the links about the computer models and found serious questions. Then as now we were not supposed to question our betters.

Climate change fear is being used much as Covid fear was used. That being to push an agenda. Many of us get that. What is disturbing is we are somehow no longer allowed to question. Since when does science stop being subject to review? Fact is every theory is supposed to be checked by others who try to replicate the findings. New tools or some new evidences have altered long standing theories before.
Science does not belong to a select few.

 

[sk47]

I couldn't have put it better.

It always amuses me when CC deniers argue against climate change existence, then say 'and even if it is so what'!

As you say it really doesn't matter what some uninformed politically motivated trolls believe - the world knows they are wrong. Don't waste your time on them.

Hope the surgery goes OK

Hello; Thanks for showing your colors again. Of course the climate changes. Did so before there were people with politics and has constantly changed all along.
There are at least three questions involved. First question-is natural climate change real? Climate change has been around for billions of years and humans maybe six million years depending on which evidence is used. Point being natural climate change predates human activities by a great margin.

Next question is how much can human activities add to natural climate change? This is the real sticking point of the whole problem. Much already said about this.

Next question and perhaps the more imp[ortant is what benefits can be expected if the agenda of the anti fossil fuel folks is fully put into place right away. I have posed this many times and still wait for responses. I get it is not possible but as an exercise. Say human CO2 goes to zero next week all over the world, when will the benefits of such an action start to take place? Follow up question. If the benefits do eventually take place at what scale will the benefits happen?

NOTE- thing is we know some countries with major populations are not on board with carbon reduction. Some are in fact ramping up the use of fossil fuels as i type and have been doing so for decades. They will continue to do so for many years to come.

 

[DemonGT]

I couldn't have put it better.

It always amuses me when CC deniers argue against climate change existence, then say 'and even if it is so what'!

As you say it really doesn't matter what some uninformed politically motivated trolls believe - the world knows they are wrong. Don't waste your time on them.

Hope the surgery goes OK

So you think that you have done so much reading online that makes you some kind of expert on CC? And people who have differing opinions or simply "uninformed"? That same type of attitude was used with covid. If you don't take everything the media jams down your throat and you question things your a anti this or denier that or some kind of uniformed troll. We have seen how well that all went.

There are plenty of people out there that believe in CC but still understand how EV's are not the answer and may even make things worse.

 

[sk47]

So you think that you have done so much reading online that makes you some kind of expert on CC? And people who have differing opinions or simply "uninformed"? That same type of attitude was used with covid. If you don't take everything the media jams down your throat and you question things your a anti this or denier that or some kind of uniformed troll. We have seen how well that all went.

There are plenty of people out there that believe in CC but still understand how EV's are not the answer and may even make things worse.

Hello; Good point. The assumption seems to be that EV's and the attendant materials needed to support EV's will automatically be a great deal better than the current energy and transport systems in use today.

Back in the 1970's a friend traded in his Oldsmobile 442 for a Oldsmobile Cutlass with a smaller engine. Maybe even a six cylinder. later he complained the new car was using neatly the same amount of gas. Both cars were of similar weight and he drove the newer car on average the same way he had driven the 442. Takes the same amount of energy to push similar weights around at the same accelerations and speeds. ( NOTE- he did not drive the 442 all that hard is a key. Of course the 442 could use up fuel if driven hard. Keep in mind this was during the first gas embargo and most of us were being more mindful.)

Same sort of thing when another friend was impressed with my 1970 Opel GT's fuel economy. He got a loaded Datsun station wagon with an automatic. A some heavier car and the old automatics did not get good fuel economy. My Opel was a manual and some lighter without AC.

Perceptions do not always match reality.

 

[AZlb5.0]

During the Jurassic time period the average global temperature of the earth was 27*C or 80*F. Today the average global temperature is 13.9*c or 53*F. During the Jurassic time period, the average atmospheric CO2 concentration was, 900ppm and today we sit at 418ppm.

Why did all kinds of species (plant base/animal) survived and thrived during the Jurassic time period, and humans can’t survive now if it was hotter and there was more CO2 in the atmosphere then?

just a question from a dumb human.

 

[LSchicago]

I’d probably have done the same. Are these rolling blackouts a common feature in the US?

Might be in a few areas with bad infrastructure. Doesn't happen in my area.

 

[key01]

During the Jurassic time period the average global temperature of the earth was 27*C or 80*F. Today the average global temperature is 13.9*c or 53*F. During the Jurassic time period, the average atmospheric CO2 concentration was, 900ppm and today we sit at 418ppm.

Why did all kinds of species (plant base/animal) survived and thrived during the Jurassic time period, and humans can’t survive now if it was hotter and there was more CO2 in the atmosphere then?

just a question from a dumb human.

it is all about the rapidness of the change, which happened with volcanic activity that wiped out 85% of all living species back then and is similar to the rapid change we are responsible for in the present.

the humans can read up here:

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2...-when-co2-was-extremely-high-why-cant-humans/

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