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GM is pulling back on EVs

Vlad Soare

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“The Tesla Model 3 comes with 235 mm Michelin Pilot Sport tires on 18-inch wheels. They retail for $243.99 each at Tire Rack. That means when it's time to re-shoe your Tesla, you'll be out more than a thousand dollars once you pay sales tax and costs for mounting and balancing.”
In all fairness, a Mustang GT comes with 275 mm Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires on 19-inch wheels. So it's even worse in this respect. We, Mustang enthusiasts, are not in a position to scoff at other people's tire costs. :)
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RagmopInKona

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In all fairness, a Mustang GT comes with 275 mm Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires on 19-inch wheels. So it's even worse in this respect. We, Mustang enthusiasts, are not in a position to scoff at other people's tire costs. :)
But a Honda civic/ toyo tercel 4 tires are 598.00 and go twice the miles(tread life) .
Apples to apples most buy an ev as an econobox appliance on wheels. A performance car tires are a different metric.
But I can hear Burkle now, but but we don't have to buy gas. And our power is subsidized across everyones electric bill and we can goto a free charging point.
 

RagmopInKona

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Hmmm. It took this long to figure this out? 🤡

https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/why-consumers-are-passing-up-electric-vehicles

“Car buyers are willing to give up their gas-guzzlers for good, but as Bloomberg reports, they aren’t making the jump straight to fully-electric vehicles; they’re buying hybrids.

Data from analytics firm GlobalData shows that sales of hybrid cars — cars that combine the use of electric power with a gas powered engine, more than doubled in the United States since 2020.”

“‘The auto industry doesn’t function in a mode where you just flip a switch and everything’s different,‘said Schuster. ‘[Hybrids are] a way for the mass market to start edging into electric vehicles.’”

“On the flip side, Toyota has been spending close to $50 billion on EVs and introduced new production methods that would help them roll out more electric models. However, former chairman Akio Toyoda predicted that many buyers aren’t ready to fully embrace EVs and that they should be afforded the choice to choose what kind of car they want.”
In other news

floor.webp
 

Vlad Soare

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But a Honda civic/ toyo tercel 4 tires are 598.00 and go twice the miles(tread life) .
Apples to apples most buy an ev as an econobox appliance on wheels. A performance car tires are a different metric.
That's a fair point, but the Model 3 isn't exactly an econobox. It's an expensive performance vehicle. A 162 mph vehicle that does 0-60 in three seconds is more in the Mustang's league than in the Civic's, and is bound to have expensive tires.
Econoboxes are, say, the Volkwagen ID3, the Renault Zoe, the Hyundai Ioniq, and the like. And these come with smaller, cheaper tires. The Ioniq, for instance, takes 195/65R15.
 
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sk47

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In all fairness, a Mustang GT comes with 275 mm Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires on 19-inch wheels. So it's even worse in this respect. We, Mustang enthusiasts, are not in a position to scoff at other people's tire costs. :)
Hello; This tire issue seems to be similar to the fire issue in ways. The fire issue is the more troubling to be sure. BEV's are of a some different nature than the traditional ICE. All BEV that I currently know of are much heavier than an equivalent ICE. Due to the mass of the batteries. To go faster and have more range the batteries grow even heavier. The BEV may look like an ordinary vehicle but has the weight near a full sized pickup or close to it.

but the Model 3 isn't exactly an econobox. It's an expensive performance vehicle. A 162 mph vehicle that does 0-60 in three seconds is more in the Mustang's league than in the Civic's,
Hello; To be sure I have never considered a Tesla or other BEV's the same way I think of a Mustang GT. I have been distracted by the weight I suppose. Also i have never driven a BEV of any sort so cannot compare the performance. I have driven very light ICE cars and 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, one ton and heavier trucks. The weight makes a difference.

I think the point of the article I linked was EV owners are in for some unexpected costs for tires. I admit to looking for the negative aspects of the much heavier BEV as they currently exist. Much of my attitude comes from resentment the "force" being used against the car makers and we consumers to promote BEV's.
The ads and rhetoric focus on how the EV is part of the overall plane to save the planet. Being so heavy means, the tires will wear out faster. This will add to general pollution. I contend the EV push will pretty much trade one form of environmental damage for a different sort and will not be so "clean" after all.
 

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Burkey

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https://www.yahoo.com/autos/slow-sales-mean-more-tesla-131000587.html

Slow Sales Mean More Tesla Discounts
I guess our EV loving wanna be dictators have figured out they lost the war.
Seriously.
Recently you claimed that people don’t want EV’s, they want Teslas….
Then you post that Tesla is struggling for sales.

1. Can you explain, in your own words, how exactly the “EV wanna be dictators” are dictating how much Tesla might choose to discount their vehicles? Should make for an interesting read.

2. Did you read more than the headline? I ask because the article you shared states:

”According to Reuters, the latest cuts come in an effort to bolster delivery. The automaker wants to deliver a record 476,000 vehicles in the final three months of the year. It’s a piece of a puzzle that aims to hand over 1.8 million vehicles in total this year. That’s definitely a tall order.

Heres a fact for you. EV sales in the second quarter of THIS year, were the highest they’ve ever been. More EV’s sold in that quarter than in the total of 2019 in fact.

Maybe, people don’t want Teslas? Maybe the EV market is doing more or less what’s expected of it, but one particular brand isn’t seeing the results they’ve typically enjoyed and has subsequently set themself the mission of setting a new record?

“Roughly 295,000 EVs were sold between April and June 2023 — a new record.
Not only is that more than 48% higher than last year, it’s more EVs than were sold in all of 2019. That’s not even counting sales of plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), which can run on gas or electricity and a battery that can be recharged with either a charging cable or a generator powered by the engine.”


Which part of all that indicates that the market for EV’s is declining?

Full article below:
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/20/...ve now predicts sales,for the first time ever.
 

K4fxd

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You do like to cherry pick.

Most of the people who wanted Teslas have them. BEV's are nothing more than a fad and a status symbol. They will remain that way until the mandates kick in. Which by the way are being pushed back.

Did you see where they need security at charging stations in London? To keep people from kicking the shit out of each other.

100% BEV, I'll quote Aerosmith, Dream on.
 

tripleyellowmustang

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Auto executive Bob Lutz’s opinion on transition to BEV.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-public-not-ready-ex-113200875.html

“Lutz believes there’s not enough electricity-generating infrastructure in the U.S. to support President Joe Biden’s goal of having 50% of all new vehicle sales be electric by 2030. He also believes there’s simply not enough demand.

‘The regulation is way ahead of the public,‘
he added. ‘The American public is not ready for the broad adoption of electric vehicles. There are maybe 10%-12% of people who really want an electric vehicle — and that’s good — but the remainder still want internal combustion.’”
 
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Burkey

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You do like to cherry pick.
I‘m just giving actual numbers, as they’ve been recorded.

Most of the people who wanted Teslas have them.
This any or may not be true. Do you have a source for this particular claim or is it just your interpretation of Tesla’s sales figures? Is there a survey you’d like to cite? What if its just as simple as “there are better EV’s on the market these days, so people are increasingly choosing them over the Tesla offerings”?

BEV's are nothing more than a fad and a status symbol.
And yet the sales figures seem climb every year….
I‘ll agree that EV’s aren’t prefect, but if my options are:
A) walking
B) riding a pushbike
C) Horse and cart
I‘ll take the EV thanks


They will remain that way until the mandates kick in.
LOL.. You haven't even established the validity of your original premise. I understand that you FEEL that way, but your feelings don’t matter here.

Did you see where they need security at charging stations in London?
I did. Did you see the bit where EV sales have hit an all time high in the UK? I wonder if the Increased demand might have something to do with it?
I mean, when you’ve doubled the number of plug in cars on the road over the course of two years, I’d reasonably expect some dramas to occur. A clever businessman might see an opportunity to make some money. Supply and demand right?
Seems to me that the demand has outstripped the supply. It seems entirely probable that it will equalise at some point soon enough. Perhaps the clever businessmen completely underestimated just how popular the plug ins would become.

I can’t honestly say that I’d have expected a 100% increase in numbers over the course of 2 years. Who would‘ve? Certainly not you….”they’re just a fad”
 

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RagmopInKona

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All that is going to happen as they mandate these ev's is you'll have to pony up for a commerial tag/plate to bypass the mandate. As there is no way in hell businesses that need a vehicle now, not after 30minute to a few hours of charging are going to go ev.
I can see it now, Amazon prime 2 day shipping
* two day shipping is caculated by time minus time the shipment is stopped from the need vihicle to be charged, time waiting on an open charger, down time waiting for it to be loaded from equipment charging, D.o.t. drivers timing out for the day.
 

RagmopInKona

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I‘m just giving actual numbers, as they’ve been recorded.





And yet the sales figures seem climb every year….
You do know Tesla counts every used unit swapping ownership as a new sale when they caculate sales. The numbers are not JUST new units put into service.
You do know most ev only brands are doing the same?
What would the production/sales numbers be for G.M or Ford if they got to count every unit new or used that swapped ownership?
Ev's brands are cooking the books using a loophole of not putting a model year tied to each unit. So a 6 year old tesla changing ownership gets to be counted as a new production sale.
That is called Fraud .
 

sk47

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I‘ll agree that EV’s aren’t prefect, but if my options are:
A) walking
B) riding a pushbike
C) Horse and cart
I‘ll take the EV thanks
Hello; You left out the ICE options of course which have worked fine for over a century. I imagine you also leave out all the ICE heavy equipment used to mine and transport materials to build not only the BEV but the "green energy" EV fuel suppliers such as wind, solar and such electricity makers.

Here is another tidbit not just speculation anymore. These EV and green energy mandates raise the cost of transportation overall. The BEV's are and have been more expensive than equivalent ICE's. The cost of making BEV's is expected to increase if production numbers increase to replace ICE as mandates take hold mainly due to the lack of some critical rare minerals. These critical minerals are needed to make the batteries. Of course some new game changer battery tech is just around the corner.
To supply the energy to all corners electric grids will have to be upgraded at tremendous cost. That cost will eventually fall on the working & tax paying folks when all is said and done.
I get that every house hold with an electric meter will have an increased bill but some will get a government subsidy. For years in my area some house holds get help paying for heating in the winter. ( Yes government agencies have been helping folks buy coal and such for home heating). Point is it works down to the working & taxpaying folks eventually to foot the bill.
 

sk47

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Ev's brands are cooking the books using a loophole of not putting a model year tied to each unit. So a 6 year old tesla changing ownership gets to be counted as a new production sale.
That is called Fraud .
Hello; Yes FRAUD! Another point can be made. The EV champions on here have failed to mention this tidbit in all the months they have been posting about the virtues of an EV. So, if they knew and did not mention this fact such is another lever of deceit. If they did not know such tells much about their competency.
 

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You do know Tesla counts every used unit swapping ownership as a new sale when they caculate sales. The numbers are not JUST new units put into service.
You do know most ev only brands are doing the same?
What would the production/sales numbers be for G.M or Ford if they got to count every unit new or used that swapped ownership?
Ev's brands are cooking the books using a loophole of not putting a model year tied to each unit. So a 6 year old tesla changing ownership gets to be counted as a new production sale.
That is called Fraud .
If you don’t trust the sales figures, just use the registration figures instead. Pretty simple.
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