Getting a GT350 at MSRP

[Cruzinaround]

If you price out the majority of the Market that is the target demographic for that car....then the vehicles simply won't meet the sales expectations in the long term. That's just logic. A mustang is NOT a wealthy man's luxury item. And the right mustang is simply a daily driven car with amenities that make the driver feel comfortable, or with many sports cars...actually safer.

If the cars don't sell at MSRP they will still lower the price... BUT, if the price is just right to begin wth... THEN FoMoCo simply sells more cars and more people that are the target demographic own them, More customer loyalty is built up and the chances for return customers in the form of refferals and family are now added to the equation.

For a dealer to besmirch the value of this is a complete slap in the face to the Consumer and to the Manufacturer of that product. With this shedding more light on the fact that the weak link in the chain here is the dealership... do we really need to paint more of a picture as to why the direct buy model in modern times...is the better way?

For most that require a daily driver it's not a luxury.... Its a necessity. What we have when we shop and decide on what we can afford and what we want to drive within our means to afford it....is the luxury to choose one car over another.

The Dealer takes away the luxury of affordability in that choice when they kill the MSRP with their unjustified ADM's

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[Cruzinaround]

Dealers have a financial incentive to hype how "rare" and "exclusive" a car like the GT350 is in an attempt to justify and get ADMs. I've found dealers to be the least reliable source of information on production numbers---the dealers are consistently understating actual production.

The only justification to jack up prices for any dealership is if they were to throw in value added premiums through their dealership.

For example if they tossed in lifetime oil changes and tune-up for the life of the vehicle or professional detailing and simonizing every change of season or perhaps a second set of winter wheels and tires with free seasonal rotations.

Things like this actually add a justified value to any ADM's and should be an optional upsell over MSRP. Most people would go for it if the added price was a considerable value to them.

The dealers that say the car is rare...have no friggin idea what they are talking about and are trying to color the sales pitch. And the people who fall for that line are what the salespeople call a whale.... already landed and vulnerable when they walk in the door.

 

[Hack]

MSRP is totally in the dealership's favor and makes them money. The purchase invoice price is also something you should be allowed to see ...which is what the dealer actually pays for the car below MSRP. Which is the point where you can raise an eyebrow and call them the crooks that they are. .

Crooks steal things. Making money in a voluntary transaction is not a crime. I think you are being excessively greedy by pushing this way of thinking about a business. I'm really tired of this type of thinking. It's none of your business what the dealership has to pay for the car and it's none of your business how much the dealership makes. Decide for yourself if you want to buy the car or not.

Assuming you work - your company sells a product. They sell for enough money that they can afford to pay their bills and pay you. How would you feel if I were coming into a public forum saying your company sells its products for too high a price? They are probably paying you too much, too. They should reduce your wages and cut the prices on their products because the current price they are charging is THEFT!!

They already make money at the MSRP. .

The dealership has a lot of bills to pay. People's wages, taxes, building upkeep and maintenance, insurance to name a few. Even just their inventory of cars has to be a HUGE investment. Imagine the interest on a loan for the value of 100 cars! Crazy. I don't think you really know how much the dealership needs to make on each car in order to come out ahead. Yes they probably do fine at MSRP, but they have to sell under MSRP at times.

Again all reasons why a direct buy model should be pushed for from both the Manufacturer and the consumer. Which would force the dealers to rethink how they do business.

It costs money to sell directly to customers. Whether the dealer is spending that money or the manufacturer it's a similar situation. It's not like Ford will be able to sell direct a ton cheaper than a dealer. The thing I like about having dealerships is it gives me a choice. If Ford sold direct there is no longer any choice.

 

[Hack]

A mustang is NOT a wealthy man's luxury item.

I think any new car is more for the wealthy. Most people can't afford to always have a new car. Mustang (especially a GT or Shelby) is certainly an upscale item many people can't afford.

For most that require a daily driver it's not a luxury.... Its a necessity. What we have when we shop and decide on what we can afford and what we want to drive within our means to afford it....is the luxury to choose one car over another.

A 2011 base Fiesta or a 90s V6 Mustang could be construed as a necessity, but not any brand new car.

 

[Cruzinaround]

Hack... affording a new car is not a crime, being wealthy is not a crime. Wanting a particular car is not a crime. Most people can only afford things that are attainable within their means. If you can't afford the Mustang at MSRP then you can look at the Focus at MSRP. Or look at another car entirely. If you're looking to shop for used that comes with other worries to concern yourself about with the history and a whole checklist to review. What you look for as that buyer is the transparency to reveal the issues to justify the cost and you still have to make a decision based on what you can afford.

To say that as a consumer I have to just bend over and take it from the dealers when I can actually afford to buy a new car is extremely short sighted on your part.

I have an obligation as a buyer of a big ticket item that will likely be a part of my life for many years... to do my homework and to know the value of it before I decide to purchase it. As an educated consumer I can shop and ask the dealer to justify their unrealistic ADM's. And if the answer is poor...they can be reported to the BBB.... and Yelp or where ever else there is the possibility to damage their reputation and sour their business. These tactics do work.

And... the fact that you can go online and choose options that you want in the car you want and pull a quote if FORD giving you a choice. What kills that choice is when the dealer takes that MSRP, which they are already making a profit on and decide to price you out of the choice you wanted.

Coercion in itself is not a crime when its done to help you make a better decision. But, when it's fueled by basically greed... it is unethical. And is on the same level as a crime. If a dealer is trying to convince you that paying 20k above MSRP is justifiable when all the homework suggests otherwise to an educated consumer. Then that dealership is doing something as criminal as scalping tickets. It is a crime but, it plays into the hands of people who for whatever reason.... live with it.

 

[908ssp]

Nobody is using coercion you simply don't have to buy the car what is so hard to understand the dealer doesn't owe you the car. The beauty is it is a voluntary cooperation between buyer and seller you don't like you walk away. You want to cry about it that's tough.

 

[shadow]

The dealership has a lot of bills to pay. People's wages, taxes, building upkeep and maintenance, insurance to name a few. Even just their inventory of cars has to be a HUGE investment. Imagine the interest on a loan for the value of 100 cars! Crazy. I don't think you really know how much the dealership needs to make on each car in order to come out ahead. Yes they probably do fine at MSRP, but they have to sell under MSRP at times.

It costs money to sell directly to customers. Whether the dealer is spending that money or the manufacturer it's a similar situation. It's not like Ford will be able to sell direct a ton cheaper than a dealer. The thing I like about having dealerships is it gives me a choice. If Ford sold direct there is no longer any choice.

Haha, you either own a dealership or work at one... My personal opinion is that if a dealer is going to throw an ADM on top of a car I want to buy, it is not a place I will do business at for any vehicle purchase, rare or otherwise. In my eyes if they treat me fair i will treat them fair.

 

[Cruzinaround]

I'll add... Buying new....comes with more incentive for an educated consumer since new also comes with both a Manufacturer warrantee as well as implied warrantees. There is a safety net there in that purchase. Faulting me as a consumer for being able to afford a GT350 at MSRP and saying the dealership has a right to scalp prices based on their false hype of rarity....

You are not serious are you? Think about what you're saying. Dealers should be allowed to act like drug dealers based on greed.

 

[FATHERFORD]

Here in Houston to go AutoNation Katy Ford, they sell all their ordered cars at MSRP. They will even take x-plan for it.

They claim to be the number one mustang seller in the US, so you know they have the allotments

When i bought my 14 last august they had nearly 400 mustangs on the lot.

 

[Cruzinaround]

Nobody is using coercion you simply don't have to buy the car what is so hard to understand the dealer doesn't owe you the car. The beauty is it is a voluntary cooperation between buyer and seller you don't like you walk away. You want to cry about it that's tough.

When a dealer slaps the name of FORD on their signage, they have a reputation they are now responsible for representing. They don't owe me anything except the respect to show me the transparency behind their pricing. And to justify their reasons for extreme markups.

You brought up capitalism. So in this world I have a right to ask for this justification or I simply go to the dealer that will respect that sign on their building and the reputation of the Manufacturer that said the car would be surprisingly affordable.

Coercion makes things appear voluntary only when there is a sales person actually trying to justify the ADM's and successfully convincing the buyer they are the only game in town. Once transparency is thrown into the equation.... The dealer loses. Unless that buyer is simply "more money than brains". Which is like holding candy out in front of a toddler.

So yes...you're sort of right...at that point it is cooperation. Just like a drug dealer selling to a druggie.

The point where its not applicable.....An educated consumer comes into the selling floor and sees the ADM pricing on the vehicle and tells the vultures that close in for the kill to forget the ptch.."I'm going to buy a BMW". Boom the dealer and the Manufacturer just lost big time.

 

[Hack]

Hack... affording a new car is not a crime, being wealthy is not a crime. Wanting a particular car is not a crime. .

I agree 100%. I don't believe that anyone has said that wanting/affording a car is a crime. Not sure why you are saying that. Trying to change the discussion to a different subject?

To say that as a consumer I have to just bend over and take it from the dealers when I can actually afford to buy a new car is extremely short sighted on your part. .

I said nothing of the sort. I said you have the freedom to make whatever choice you want. I didn't say this before, but I think freedom is a beautiful thing. I want all people to have freedom. The more the better.

Coercion in itself is not a crime when its done to help you make a better decision. But, when it's fueled by basically greed... it is unethical. And is on the same level as a crime. If a dealer is trying to convince you that paying 20k above MSRP is justifiable when all the homework suggests otherwise to an educated consumer.

Not sure what you mean by coercion. Usually the meaning of coercion means using force or threats to persuade someone. The dealer doesn't use force and threats. Seems like another false narrative being told.
There is nothing wrong with self-interest. But you are calling the dealer's self-interest greed, while you are portraying your greed as a virtue. I don't blame you for wanting a GT350. Good luck buying one.

 

[Hack]

Haha, you either own a dealership or work at one... My personal opinion is that if a dealer is going to throw an ADM on top of a car I want to buy, it is not a place I will do business at for any vehicle purchase, rare or otherwise. In my eyes if they treat me fair i will treat them fair.

No I'm not associated with Ford or any car company or dealer in any way. I do work at an American owned small business that makes and sells products world wide. We often see intense price pressure and the company must always be working hard to compete.

So I do often think about profit margins and I'm well aware that my job depends on my place of employment being able to sell at a profit. That's why I am on the side of the business (or I should say I'm on the side of them having the freedom to chose their prices). Because I know that my job depends on the business making money.

 

[Cruzinaround]

I agree 100%. I don't believe that anyone has said that wanting/affording a car is a crime. Not sure why you are saying that. Trying to change the discussion to a different subject?

You only mentioned that crooks steal things. My mention of crime is basically to show the parallel to how the salesman approaches this. If it is in fact taking advantage of a buyer and using the anxiousness to have that vehicle as the catalyst for a coercive selling approach that involves justifying that ADM through the perceived rarity of the vehicle... then the salesman for that dealership is a crook taking advantage of that situation.

I said nothing of the sort. I said you have the freedom to make whatever choice you want. I didn't say this before, but I think freedom is a beautiful thing. I want all people to have freedom. The more the better.

Dealers have factory incentives that they can either be transparent about or decide not to and still sell at MSRP or above. When they choose not to be transparent about it it sort of slaps those liberties you speak of in the face. Mocking my freedom as a consumer and a citizen. If I'm in the know and the dealer help me to know better then my choice is better made.


You mentioned we have choices. Freedom to choose is limited by the choices we are left with in any given situation. So if that dealer is the only player in my area and is trying to ADM because of it... They just played their card that I will either buy from them or no one since it is now an inconvenience and an expense in time and money for me to travel elsewhere to actually find what I want for my money at a fair price.

There is nothing wrong with self-interest. But you are calling the dealer's self-interest greed, while you are portraying your greed as a virtue. I don't blame you for wanting a GT350. Good luck buying one.

There is no self interest on the part of a dealer to use ADM's. Just greed. At MSRP the dealership makes a significant amount of money since that margin between MSRP and their actual cost is any where from 10 to 15% or more when you consider the factory to dealer incentives extended to that dealership for making volume purchases to seed their inventory. The saving is already extended to them in a way that is designed to make them money even with a surplus inventory that they can use later in the year to push for a fire sale that still makes a profit at discount pricing. They can also move some surplus inventory to their internal divisions with rentals and leasing which will net them even more money through their own dealer financing.

The only loser in this scenario is the buyer. Think of it this way...its like walking into a Casino. The house always wins. But when you know how to count cards or know their system well enough to even the playing field...they suddenly want you to leave their establishment.

 

[w3rkn]

Haha, you either own a dealership or work at one... My personal opinion is that if a dealer is going to throw an ADM on top of a car I want to buy, it is not a place I will do business at for any vehicle purchase, rare or otherwise. In my eyes if they treat me fair i will treat them fair.

This^ is the exact reason a Dealer shouldn't do ADM, but still do. They have no idea how much it hurts their business, because the ill effect of ADM are not in the manager's face.


I know a person who went in to buy a Boss 302, when he got there they tried to throw ADM in his face, etc... but it wasn't marked on the car and had changed from a week before when another mutual friend went to check the car out.

They would not even let him test drive the car, (before he bought it), even though he said they could work a deal out on ADM. So He walked out, for good. (the same dealer call him 5 months later to work out a deal with him, because the car was still on the showroom floor).

He told them "I no longer shop at your store..!"




Today, that same Ford dealer has lost the sales of some 11~15 cars, over a 5 year period, from his 5 family members (who all buy fords).

Now add up all his His neighbors... His golf buddies... Me... and anyone else that ever thinks about buying a Ford, who will never go to that same dealer again.... and their families..!

To this day, that Dealer (right or wrong) still gets ridiculed, bad-mouthed for trying to be greedy. And has probably lost the sales of some 50 ~ 60 vehicles in just a short period of time, from drawing the ire of just ONE patron who had cash in hand. Their money talked... and they & their friends took their collective wealth to other dealers.




There are 3 Ford Dealers within a 12 miles.

All ADM does... is gives your competitors more customers. It does nothing else for the dealer doing the ADM. As Dealers already make MONEY... but throwing out 20+ customers, who refuse to pay ADM only makes for more disgruntled buyers (& their family & friends) who won't shop at your store anymore.

Like I said, just one person (like my friend^) equates to 15 cars of lost sales over just a short period for that dealer. Now multiply that by 20+ people who come in to buy a car, then told "ADM, or get the hell out!"
The respect is gone... and friends & family will move on.




Obviously, a dealer using ADM doesn't care about it's customers. Which is ok, because we understand it is just a business. But people recognize there are other places to do that business.


Rule of thumb, walk out of a dealer who has ADM advertised, even if you are not looking at that car. Let them know why you are leaving too. Shaming them goes a long way on the showroom floor... when other people are standing around. ADM is shameful. Most managers don't care, because they are not ashamed... their name is not on the dealership.



Now, that said... if you want to be one of the first 3 ~5 cars purchased.. and you lay out some extra money for the dealer, to make sure you get your car when you want..? That is a whole other story.

 

[Grimace427]

They have no idea how much it hurts their business, because the ill effect of ADM are not in the manager's face.

I have actually walked right up to my local sales manager's face and told him if he puts an ADM on GT350s I will never purchase from them again, and this was after purchasing a 2014 Escape for my girlfriend and having my mom purchase a 2014 Edge only a few weeks after. They know I want a GT350 and I've talked to one of their salesmen about Mustangs for several months now/test driving so on. Very nice people, but they just don't get it when it comes to customer loyalty. The salesman feels really bad about it too because he doesn't see a penny(according to him at least) of the ADM when a car sells.

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