GEN3 5.0L Mustang GT Engine Prep for Road Courses (HPDE)

[Gray Ghost]

I purchased a 2021 Mustang GT 5.0 base and upgraded the suspension, brakes, and cooling, but not the engine, powertrain and other components except for a MGW shifter. I'm considering the Comp Cams Stage 3 232/234 .551”/.551” vs. L&M 235/237 .516”/.514” 131 LSA vs. Comp Cams Stage 2 231/233 .516”/.514” 129 LSA vs. a proven custom grind. I maintaining the OEM intake manifold or throttle body but will add a Steeda HARDCORE MaxFlow Closed Cold Air Intake.

I’m looking for best power under the curve with strong mid-range power and broad torque band for road courses vs. having most of the power at the high end of the RPM band. I'm focusing on high torque to pull me out of the turns on to the straight aways, etc. I have no plans to go FI. I would upgrade the valvetrain springs, ATI pulley, injectors, and oil pump gear. I also plan to install the Torsen T2R differential and Ford or MMR differential cooler. This is what I’ve done so far:

APEX EC-7 Wheels 19x10 and 19x11, and Mach 1 OEM 19x10.5 and 19x11
APR 3" Hardened Wheel Studs
BMR Adjustable Front and Rear Sway Bars
BMR IRS Subframe Support Brace
BMR Super Low Profile Jacking Rails
Brembo 6 Piston Front Calipers with 15" Rotors M-2300-V
Stainless Steel Brake Lines
CarboTech XP10/XP8 Performance Brake Pads
Ford Performance (Borla) Performance Exhaust System
Ford Performance Front and Rear Tow Hooks
Ford Performance Knuckle to Toe Link Delrin Spherical Bearing
Ford Performance Radiator
Ford Performance Strut Tower Brace
J&L 3.0 Oil Separator - Passenger Side
Koni Sport Yellow Front and Rear Struts and Shocks
MGW Shifter
Scott Drake Wicker Bill Rear Spoiler
Steeda Camber Plates
Steeda Differential Mount Bushing System
UPR Adjustable Motor Mounts
Vogtland Sport Plus Lowering Springs
Vorshlag Front Brake Cooling Deflectors

I appreciate your feedback and recommendations based on your cams selection, testing and experience. The articles I read so far led me to this question. Thanks!

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[c_reber]

I would personally skip cams, and leave the engine stock (bolt-ons and an E85 tune). I still have stock motor, but I haven't heard many awesome reviews on changing the coyote cams. I'm sure you've done more research there than I! Hopefully someone else chimes in to provide more feedback.

You might also consider a square wheel setup instead of a staggered. Lots of people run 18x11 or 19x11 with success.

Do you have any safety equipment? What is your overall goal for the car? Why do you need more power?

 

[Gray Ghost]

I would personally skip cams, and leave the engine stock (bolt-ons and an E85 tune). I still have stock motor, but I haven't heard many awesome reviews on changing the coyote cams. I'm sure you've done more research there than I! Hopefully someone else chimes in to provide more feedback.

You might also consider a square wheel setup instead of a staggered. Lots of people run 18x11 or 19x11 with success.

Do you have any safety equipment? What is your overall goal for the car? Why do you need more power?

I ran a square 18x11 305 setup on my 09 GT with great results. I plan to run a 19x10.5/11 setup on the '21 GT with 315s for the track. I plan to install a harness bar with a set of Schroth ASM 4-point harness or swap the OEM seats for a set of Sparco EVO3 (XL) seats and a 6-point harness setup like I had in my S197 GT. It's primarily a daily driver that will do some HPDE vs. being a dedicated track car. I agree, I'm in no rush to open the engine, but had good success with cams in the S197 GT 5.0L. Keeping my options open. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[AZlb5.0]

Is this going to be a track dedicated car or is it going to do double duty?

 

[EFI]

IMO go with gears, headers and/or intake manifold before cams if you feel you need more pulling power.

 

[c_reber]

I ran a square 18x11 305 setup on my 09 GT with great results. I plan to run a 19x10.5/11 setup on the '21 GT with 315s for the track. I plan to install a harness bar with a set of Schroth ASM 4-point harness or swap the OEM seats for a set of Sparco EVO3 (XL) seats and a 6-point harness setup like I had in my S197 GT. It's primarily a daily driver that will do some HPDE vs. being a dedicated track car. I agree, I'm in no rush to open the engine, but had good success with cams in the S197 GT 5.0L. Keeping my options open. Thanks for the feedback.

So that is my point, why not run square on the 2021? 19x11 with 305 or 315. Unless you have a couple sets of staggered wheels already and don't want to buy new wheels, I understand that. but the ability to rotate wheels can def save some money.

If it's a primarily daily driver with occasional HPDE events, I would leave as stock as possible and make sure it's reliable! Extra power should be 10th on your list of wants. Go enjoy it as is and when you feel that you absolutely need those extra 10-20 hp for the extra Hundredth of a second, then look at cams.

 

[Ewheels]

OP, do exactly what @c_reber says. He's fast as sh*t!
(not sarcastic....he's wiping the floor with us in our local Time Attack league)

 

[c_reber]

OP, do exactly what @c_reber says. He's fast as sh*t!
(not sarcastic....he's wiping the floor with us in our local Time Attack league)

Haha, not hardly, but thank you for the kind words. I'm actually just cheap As in I don't like to spend a lot of money where I don't need to.

The OP @Gray Ghost already has a nice list of mods, and I would probably leave it alone personally and go run some events. See what you need to upgrade or improve along the way. What tires Do you usually run?

 

[Ewheels]

Haha, not hardly, but thank you for the kind words. I'm actually just cheap As in I don't like to spend a lot of money where I don't need to.

The OP @Gray Ghost already has a nice list of mods, and I would probably leave it alone personally and go run some events. See what you need to upgrade or improve along the way. What tires Do you usually run?

I see people with faster tires, more horsepower, and more aero than you set slower lap times.
I would feel so embarrassed if I had every mod in the book and someone with just wheels and tires sets the same lap.

 

[1MeanZ]

I see people with faster tires, more horsepower, and more aero than you set slower lap times.
I would feel so embarrassed if I had every mod in the book and someone with just wheels and tires sets the same lap.

...and that is one of my favorite things about road racing vs drag racing. It's not always about the most money or power.

 

[Gray Ghost]

Thanks for the feedback. I probably should have mentioned that I've been doing HPDE for the past 17 years; 15 of them in the Advanced/Solo Group with a few clubs, e.g., NASA, PCA, Chin, SCMC, and a few others. Started in a Corvette C5 and later a S197 Mustang GT with a built 5.0. I've enjoyed driving on road courses mostly along the east coast that include Watkins Glen, Summit Point, NJ Motorsports Park, VIR, Road Atlanta, and Barber Motorsports Park. My current track car is a '13 C6 Grand Sport, but I want to take this '21 Mustang GT to a few events once I return to the states from Germany. I'm taking it to Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps and Hockenheim this year. Thanks!

 

[Scootsmcgreggor]

If you must, I’d say gears. 4.09’s are a drastic improvement with the ‘18+ MT82. I found the gears wayyyyy too long even with 3.73’s. 4th is still too long with 4.09’s but much better than before.

As for engine reliability I’d say gt500 oil pump and pan. Like most engines, these coyotes live and die by oil volume/pressure.

 

[Racinjason65]

for cams, I’d call MMR, they do custom grinds and they road race their personal cars now as well, if you’re doing oil pump gears and crank sprocket anyway, you’re 2/3 of the way there on labor anyway. At least that’s how I justified it,…

 

[PaddyPrix]

Engine-wise, you can get pretty far with a stock-ish engine, and unless you're installing the cams yourself, I'd hold off until you get some more time in it, not so much for the seat time, but also to get an idea of who shows and when you get to the point where you're classing, where you fit in. If you start doing NASA, the cams might be the difference between Super Touring / Time Trial 3 and 2 (10:1 vs 8:1), or 2 and 1 (8:1 vs 6:1), where you'll have a completely different experience coming in at the low point of one class, instead of optimized for the top of it.

If you forego the cams, then you can also save on the injectors, and actually as a 18+ with direct injection, you're plenty fine even if you do something like e85, and in fact, looking at your mod list, perhaps long tubes would make a better next-up than cams, and fit your billing as they'd fill in your low end grunt and sound fantastic doing so. There are plenty of us on that combo which put you around 470rwhp/430rwtq which puts you ahead of GT350s, and with an e85 tune you can up timing to something like 30 and unlock a real high end screamer that'll pull to 7500 and rev well past 8k if/when you really need that extra gear. You'd be amazed at what you can do with pretty much that and a little weight savings have you abusing everybody that isn't a prototype on track days.

 

[ice445]

I see people with faster tires, more horsepower, and more aero than you set slower lap times.
I would feel so embarrassed if I had every mod in the book and someone with just wheels and tires sets the same lap.

I wouldn't feel embarassed, I'd just know for sure that I had a skill issue, haha. And I'd also know who to ask for advice, and hopefully ride along...

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