Sponsored

FYI Battery replacement

Grimmer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Threads
20
Messages
522
Reaction score
202
Location
Utah
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT Manual
I moved the Power Magic Pro unit into my glovebox so that I can reach it to switch modes. Even so, this brand new battery will drop below 12v sometimes, even if the car sits just overnight.
It was my understanding that you could simply leave the Power Magic Pro switch to "on" when you want parking mode (recording with the ignition off). Then it would cut power after a certain amount of time and/or when the battery voltage gets down to the set voltage...

Are you saying that you turn off parking mode when you park at home in the garage? Then reactivate it when you park elsewhere? I would be too worried that I would forget to reactivate parking mode and just leave it enabled at all times.

My dashcam has both the low voltage and max time cut off features built into the unit itself (no need for an external power module). There is an option in the menus to enable/disable parking mode (and you can choose between continuous time lapse or buffered motion sensing recording, e.g. 5 seconds before and 10 seconds after visual or shock motion is detected). I just leave parking mode enabled all the time. This is a significant part of the reason I changed to an AGM battery.

The flooded lead acid engine start batteries (as opposed to deep cycle or marine start/deep cycle hybrid) are designed to deliver a lot of current for a short burst to start the vehicle and then be fully recharged and stored at full charge. Modern cars consume power continuously (even when off) for the ECU, GPS, cell/data link (if equipped), WiFi, monitoring for key fob presence and unlock requests, etc... Perhaps car designers are operating within the acceptable limits of discharge / storage expecting a full recharge the next morning on the way to work, or perhaps they don't care how much they shorten the battery life... At any rate, adding a dashcam makes the discharge/storage situation worse, and not driving the car everyday makes it much worse on top of that. Add in a crappy battery and you are destined to replace it more often. I am surprised that car designers are not specifying AGM as the factory battery to mitigate the continuous draw, even more surprised that the crap (unsealed, maintenance required) battery they spec'd for these Mustangs (and many other modern model lines) don't have a direct replacement AGM option.

Batteries are a consumable part, just like brake pads. We are asking a lot of the factory battery design, which I personally consider to be under spec'd for the task at hand, and should expect to have to replace them. The only question is when and where and whether or not you will be stranded when the time comes...

Toss the battery. If it dies on you once without leaving something like the lights on, it will never hold a charge. To cheap of a fix to risk getting stuck.
+1. I just replaced my motorcycle battery (which was AGM from the factory) simply because it was 5 years old. It showed a slightly lower than expected voltage before starting the engine but was otherwise working just fine. I ride my motorcycle into the mountains and well off the beaten (paved) path. I have also seen automotive batteries go from working fine to completely shot in as little as a single start cycle. You never know when it is going to happen, and I don't want to get stuck 20 miles from the pavement with no cell reception for the lack of a $100 battery. Maybe I short changed myself 20% or even 50% of the life of that original battery... what is peace of mind worth ?
Sponsored

 

GTP

Deutsche Pony
Joined
May 27, 2015
Threads
196
Messages
4,366
Reaction score
2,237
Location
Indy
Website
www.BambergAudio.com
First Name
Philip
Vehicle(s)
2019 GT PP1 A10 Outrageous Orange HPDE mods
It was my understanding that you could simply leave the Power Magic Pro switch to "on" when you want parking mode (recording with the ignition off). Then it would cut power after a certain amount of time and/or when the battery voltage gets down to the set voltage...
All true

Are you saying that you turn off parking mode when you park at home in the garage? Then reactivate it when you park elsewhere?
Correct.

I would be too worried that I would forget to reactivate parking mode and just leave it enabled at all times.
As am I. Forget to set it for parking, or switch it off at home.

My dashcam has both the low voltage and max time cut off features built into the unit itself (no need for an external power module). There is an option in the menus to enable/disable parking mode (and you can choose between continuous time lapse or buffered motion sensing recording, e.g. 5 seconds before and 10 seconds after visual or shock motion is detected). I just leave parking mode enabled all the time. This is a significant part of the reason I changed to an AGM battery.

The flooded lead acid engine start batteries (as opposed to deep cycle or marine start/deep cycle hybrid) are designed to deliver a lot of current for a short burst to start the vehicle and then be fully recharged and stored at full charge. Modern cars consume power continuously (even when off) for the ECU, GPS, cell/data link (if equipped), WiFi, monitoring for key fob presence and unlock requests, etc... Perhaps car designers are operating within the acceptable limits of discharge / storage expecting a full recharge the next morning on the way to work, or perhaps they don't care how much they shorten the battery life... At any rate, adding a dashcam makes the discharge/storage situation worse, and not driving the car everyday makes it much worse on top of that. Add in a crappy battery and you are destined to replace it more often. I am surprised that car designers are not specifying AGM as the factory battery to mitigate the continuous draw, even more surprised that the crap (unsealed, maintenance required) battery they spec'd for these Mustangs (and many other modern model lines) don't have a direct replacement AGM option.
I am trying to determine if my dashcam is draining the battery. It may be as you say that there are just too many other features using the battery.
 

sam97mt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
94
Reaction score
14
Location
Nassau County, NY
First Name
Sam
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT/CS

plc268

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2015
Threads
31
Messages
1,853
Reaction score
648
Location
Central Texas
First Name
Patrick
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GT Premium Race Red
Guys were there any signs or issues before the stock battery croaked?..going on 4 1/2 yrs ownership with my stock battery and now concerned a bit after reading some of these post.
It was sorta sudden for me. But looking back at it, I would notice some weird electrical issues before my battery would die. I would get the fast "pony blink" when using a turn signal, indicating a light was out, and sure enough one of my tail lights would be out. And the light would stay out until I disconnect the ground from the battery for a few seconds. And occasionally I would hear the starter hiccup and struggle to start, but would still start it fine.

In my mind I knew the battery would need replacing soon anyway, but eventually it just wouldn't start at all and required jumping.

Another clue was that the charging system was pumping 14+ Volts into the battery. I've heard that when the voltage is that high, your battery is getting a bit old and probably due soon. My new battery gets fed ~12.8 at all times.

My stock battery lasted a little over 4 years (4 1/2 if you include the date it was built) in Texas weather as a daily, so that's not too shabby.
 

Grimmer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Threads
20
Messages
522
Reaction score
202
Location
Utah
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT Manual
I am trying to determine if my dashcam is draining the battery. It may be as you say that there are just too many other features using the battery.


Maybe your dashcam manufacturer has posted their parking mode current draw. Or you could hook it up through an ammeter and measure the parking mode draw. Or better yet, maybe someone on YouTube has already done it for you...

I vaguely remember one of those dashcam review sites having tested and posted the parking mode draw for my model dashcam, maybe they do that as part of their typical battery of tests for reviewing dashcams ...
 

Sponsored

Dave5.0

Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Threads
0
Messages
7
Reaction score
3
Location
Kingsport, TN
First Name
Dave
Vehicle(s)
2016 Mustang GT Premium with Performance Package
It was sorta sudden for me. But looking back at it, I would notice some weird electrical issues before my battery would die. I would get the fast "pony blink" when using a turn signal, indicating a light was out, and sure enough one of my tail lights would be out. And the light would stay out until I disconnect the ground from the battery for a few seconds. And occasionally I would hear the starter hiccup and struggle to start, but would still start it fine.

In my mind I knew the battery would need replacing soon anyway, but eventually it just wouldn't start at all and required jumping.

Another clue was that the charging system was pumping 14+ Volts into the battery. I've heard that when the voltage is that high, your battery is getting a bit old and probably due soon. My new battery gets fed ~12.8 at all times.

My stock battery lasted a little over 4 years (4 1/2 if you include the date it was built) in Texas weather as a daily, so that's not too shabby.
See above post from Grimmer. I agree with his post since I have a brand-new AGM battery and it shows 14+ volts occasionally.

As far as worrying about the charging system in your car... You can see the charging voltage in the cluster. It will vary based on what the battery management system wants to do, but if it is mostly above 13 volts with the engine running, then chances are it is fine. Edit: A little more detail... When the battery management system wants to bulk charge or needs more power for the car (e.g. run the cooling fans, etc.) the voltage will be up around 14.5 volts, when it wants less charge it settles down closer to 13V. If you are consistently seeing voltages in that range you are fine.

I suspect that your car is fine with regard to both the charging and starting systems. Sitting around is very hard on flooded lead acid start batteries. You are using a tender which should help, assuming the tender is a quality one and doing what is should. For that I prefer the microprocessor controlled ones from a reputable company.
 

sam97mt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
94
Reaction score
14
Location
Nassau County, NY
First Name
Sam
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT/CS
Got the battery and tried the fit. Long story short, I was not comfortable with it. The battery is taller than the seal of the box. With the cover in place it's too tall to close without putting stress on the hood at the point where the hood seal contacts it.

Without the cover in place, looking from the drivers perspective, the hood rests on top of the battery at the right rear section. You can feel this by sticking your fingers past the cowl with the hood just resting on the release. The hood can be closed, but its rubbing and/or putting stress on the hood.

The clearance with the stock battery and cover is already incredibly tight and can be observed by sticking a strip of cardboard between the battery cover and the hood with it closed. It barely fits as it is.

I returned the battery. I think the correct solution is to relocate the battery to the trunk if a larger battery is the goal. Better weight distribution anyway.

IMG_20190911_160055.jpg
IMG_20190911_160113.jpg
IMG_20190911_160122.jpg
IMG_20190911_160446.jpg
IMG_20190911_160026.jpg
IMG_20190911_160041.jpg
IMG_20190911_160051.jpg
IMG_20190911_161632.jpg
IMG_20190911_161638.jpg
 
Last edited:

Grimmer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Threads
20
Messages
522
Reaction score
202
Location
Utah
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT Manual
Thanks for pointing out this potential fit hazard. Your post got me interested in double checking the fit for mine too...

The only place where my hood actually touches the battery cover at all is the black weather strip against the raised ridge on the battery box. Shown in the picture below.

The bottom of the battery cover does touch the top of the battery, but only in the center region of the battery, which is only about the left third (or at most half) of that raised ridge. In fact, the right hand side of the raised ridge on the battery cover is not above it's normal (96R battery) position and transitions perfectly to the rest of the hood seal surface.
I do not detect any rips or tears in the weather strip around the areas that correspond to the highest point of the raised ridge over the battery.

With the hood fully latched closed, I can still put all 4 fingers into the gap between the battery cover and the rear of the hood (using that dip in the air dam near the left side). The only place where that thick part of the hood even comes close is on the right side where the battery cover ends and is aligned with its original position anyway, so that area is no different than stock.

In the second picture, you can see that I have installed wider area (larger diameter) plastic fender fasteners to help distribute the "pull" and diminish stress on the cover's "skirt". I put one on each end and left that middle one empty. You can see the resulting gap from the taller battery. In that area it is only about 3/8", at worst where the bottom of that ridge is actually touching the top of battery it is maybe up to 1/2" taller than stock. That weather strip appears to be thick enough to absorb the 3/8"-1/2" of extra compression. Perhaps over time that weather strip will wear out sooner than it would have with the OEM battery.

I had started to wonder if there were a few subtle design differences between the 2016 and 2017 hoods. Although it doesn't look like it by comparing to your photos...

I'm pretty sure that my AGM battery was made by Duracell and that I bought it from Sam's Club, although all Group 47 batteries should conform to the same outer dimensions.

Yes, it must be tighter than the stock setup because the new battery IS taller than the OEM, but it should be about 5/8" taller and if there was at least 1/8" clearance (probably more) between the original battery and the battery cover, then at most the top of the battery cover is 1/2" higher than stock. Based on the thickness of that weather strip, I don't think that is enough to go beyond the available space and actually damage the hood. Probably squeezing that weather strip about as much as possible.

Anyone considering the group 47 route will have to decide what they are comfortable with.

I
Resized_20190911_211606.jpeg


Resized_20190911_211700.jpeg
 

sam97mt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
94
Reaction score
14
Location
Nassau County, NY
First Name
Sam
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT/CS
With the hood fully latched closed, I can still put all 4 fingers into the gap between the battery cover and the rear of the hood (using that dip in the air dam near the left side). The only place where that thick part of the hood even comes close is on the right side where the battery cover ends and is aligned with its original position anyway, so that area is no different than stock.
If you dont mind, take a picture of your battery with the cover off and try to check the clearance with a strip of cardboard.

I can barely get a strip in without crumbling with the stock battery in place.
 

Grimmer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Threads
20
Messages
522
Reaction score
202
Location
Utah
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT Manual
I'll see what I can come up with when I get home. I may even be able to rig up my helmet cam (Sena Prizm Tube) and a flashlight under the hood. Maybe zip tie them to the positive battery cable and hopefully get a nice view of the fit.

It is possible that there are subtle differences in our cars as well as our batteries...
 

Sponsored

Grimmer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Threads
20
Messages
522
Reaction score
202
Location
Utah
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT Manual
Sorry it is taking so long... I haven't been getting home until late. I should have time tomorrow when I'm changing the oil.
 

Grimmer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Threads
20
Messages
522
Reaction score
202
Location
Utah
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT Manual
OK... Not the most stellar results. Things are pretty tight in there. This was as far back as I could get the helmet cam... It's tail was touching the fuse block. There may be other less obvious angles to try though...

Here is the photo with the battery cover off (using my phone) for comparison...
20190914_140729.jpg


Here is a photo from the helmet cam's perspective with the hood open:
Open.jpg


And here is a photo from the helmet cam with the hood closed and fully latched (battery cover still off):
Full_Latch.jpg


I suppose with better lighting and maybe a different location for the helmet cam, we could get a better look. Let me know if there is still interest in more pictures...
 

Grimmer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2016
Threads
20
Messages
522
Reaction score
202
Location
Utah
Vehicle(s)
2016 GT Manual
A couple of better ones:

With the battery cover in place:
WithCover.jpg

Without Cover:
WithoutCover.jpg
 

sam97mt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Threads
8
Messages
94
Reaction score
14
Location
Nassau County, NY
First Name
Sam
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT/CS
That's pretty tight. But not bad, I guess. I just didn't like how the hood felt closing down on it and I noticed some deflection at the left hood pivot so it swayed me. I went with the regular battery for piece of mind.

But riddle me this. What battery voltage are you seeing during idling and driving?

With my original battery it would hover from 14.1v to 14.4v regardless if it was idling or cruising. With the new battery I have seen 12.8 at idle, 13.3 typically at idle, up to 14.x during cruise. The gauge actually shows values when it seemed like it was static before.
Sponsored

 
 




Top