Fuel system clarification

[IndyRN]

I dont understand why everyone is trying to run a fuel system way past its potential it just makes no sense. A fuel system is not something you try to run at 110 percent with a pressure drop. One cool day and you're done. You should allow for plenty of overhead on a fuel system.

Probably because they don't know any better.. especially with companies telling them stock fuel setup is fine for the stage one kits on Gen3 coyotes. Clearly there is conflicting information. The purpose of this post was to get clarification as to the ceiling of the stock system, so I know if I need to go ahead and upgrade my injectors for my power goals or not. I have no intentions of running my car lean, and if that's a possibility for my power goals on a stock system, I will be upgrading.

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[cbrtrx]

Probably because they don't know any better.. especially with companies telling them stock fuel setup is fine for the stage one kits on Gen3 coyotes. Clearly there is conflicting information. The purpose of this post was to get clarification as to the ceiling of the stock system, so I know if I need to go ahead and upgrade my injectors for my power goals or not. I have no intentions of running my car lean, and if that's a possibility for my power goals on a stock system, I will be upgrading.

Well like others have posted listen to your tuner that is tuning your car, make sure you're very clear with your intentions and goals. I've already gave my recommendations from my real world experience and this is what I do.

 

[IndyRN]

Well like others have posted listen to your tuner that is tuning your car, make sure you're very clear with your intentions and goals. I've already gave my recommendations from my real world experience and this is what I do.

The tuner told me I didn't need injectors which didn't seem right. That's why I posted this. Thank you for your input on your experiences with it, it's helpful.

 

[Andy13186]

I dont understand why everyone is trying to run a fuel system way past its potential it just makes no sense. A fuel system is not something you try to run at 110 percent with a pressure drop. One cool day and you're done. You should allow for plenty of overhead on a fuel system.

There are some downsides to return style fuel systems, there is no longer a fuel bucket and you have to keep like half a tank of gas at all times especially if you want to do road racing type driving. ALso the fuel is heated constantly which can kill pumps relatively quickly on long road trips if you ever do those.. or if you are idling in traffic for hours in hot weather your fuel is going to be really hot. Also if you run e85 the hotter fuel goes bad quicker and absorbs more moisture. Those are some of the reasons other than cost that I wanted to stay returnless. Im just going with low boost and a good pump and a good BAP good injectors and a good tuner and I live in Florida where it doesnt get very cold. I also have seen reputable people having my combo with smaller pullies with no problems so I am not too worried about fueling issues. Whipple comes with rails and I have ID1050x and a BAP and dw400.

 

[cbrtrx]

There are some downsides to return style fuel systems, like there is no longer a fuel bucket and you have to keep like half a tank of gas at all times especially if you want to do road racing type driving. ALso the fuel is heated constantly which can kill pumps relatively quickly on long road trips if you ever do those.. or if you are idling in traffic for hours in hot weather your fuel is going to be really hot. Also if you run e85 the hotter fuel goes bad quicker and absorbs more moisture. Those are some of the reasons other than cost that I wanted to stay returnless. Im just going with low boost and a good pump and a good BAP good injectors and a good tuner and I live in Florida where it doesnt get very cold. I also have seen reputable people having my combo with smaller pullies with no problems so I am not too worried about fueling issues. Whipple comes with rails and I have ID1050x and a BAP and dw400.

I'm well aware of all the downsides, sometimes it's necessary though unfortunately.

 

[GreenS550]

When I did my Whipple stage 1 complete kit, it came with injectors, no BAP. with their tune the car made 675 RWHP SAE at 7,800 RPM. On the Procharger HO kit, '18 GT R1080, with 6.5 PSI boost it made 525 RWHP at 7,000 RPM with the same dynojet and stock injectors. I upgraded the '18 to 9 PSI boost and Procharger said I should use bigger injectors and a BAP. I really don't know if it was needed and I have not dyno'd the car but it makes MASSIVE (to me, feels stronger than the Bullitt) POWER. PIX head unit with helical gears. If you just put a cheap BAP on the car, I would think it would'nt hurt and Lethal Performance BAP is cheap and works well.

Of course I would only do a BAP if you upsize the injectors. REmember that the '18 up can be tuned for E85 which needs a lot more fuel low. You can get an E85 tune using the stock injectors with no issue, but upgrading the injectors after that will definitely require a BAP.

 

[IndyRN]

Spoke to procharger (again) as that's the kit I've decided to order. The tech said the 18+ cars have "plenty" of fuel, even for their stage 2 kit. I knew about the direct/port injection, but he also said I have dual pumps which I did not know.

I'm going to run it without fuel upgrades and will report back with some numbers.

 

[cbrtrx]

Spoke to procharger (again) as that's the kit I've decided to order. The tech said the 18+ cars have "plenty" of fuel, even for their stage 2 kit. I knew about the direct/port injection, but he also said I have dual pumps which I did not know.

I'm going to run it without fuel upgrades and will report back with some numbers.

Dual pumps he means one in tank and then the Di pump, stock injectors on gen 3 are only 28lbs though. Like I've said 3 times now all stock fuel system is good till about 650 rwhp with no overhead, you can do more with just upgrading the injectors. I'm not just repeating what I read somewhere, this is what I do. I dont think I can make this anymore clear.

 

[IndyRN]

Dual pumps he means one in tank and then the Di pump, stock injectors on gen 3 are only 28lbs though. Like I've said 3 times now all stock fuel sytem is good till about 650 rwhp with no overhead, you can do more with just upgrading the injectors. I'm not just repeating what I read somewhere, this is what I do. I dont think I can make this anymore clear.

What shop do you work for/run? I've never said you were wrong, nor have I asked you to clarify after the original post.

The question is what is the stock fuel system capable of. You say 650. (Wheel?) Procharger says 650 wheel, palm beach dyno says 650 wheel. I'm just posting what I find so others who have a similar question/power goals can find it.

 

[Jackson1320]

Dual pumps he means one in tank and then the Di pump, stock injectors on gen 3 are only 28lbs though. Like I've said 3 times now all stock fuel system is good till about 650 rwhp with no overhead, you can do more with just upgrading the injectors. I'm not just repeating what I read somewhere, this is what I do. I dont think I can make this anymore clear.

You gave your 2cents now let him decide for himself

 

[beefcake]

I dont understand why everyone is trying to run a fuel system way past its potential it just makes no sense. A fuel system is not something you try to run at 110 percent with a pressure drop. One cool day and you're done. You should allow for plenty of overhead on a fuel system.

car 40-65k,

blower - 6-10k

suspension wheels and tires 7k

fuel system - how cheap can i get...

i see this all the time.

11-17, 1000/1050 injectors and a bap on pump. fuel system for e85
18-20 the tuners really like the 1000s still, but you can squeak by on pump on 47s because of the di, but you have no growing room there. bap still a good idea.

e85 on any year with a power adder, you want a fuel system, car makes power on air / fuel. its the most important thing besides the blower / turbo itself

Feel Free to DM me or call with any questions.
Terry "Beefcake" Reeves
Office - 855-TBR-RACE - Cell 513-478-1965
Owner Team Beefcake - 20+ Years Experience
Deal Directly with the boss, no pushy sales guys!!!!!!!
https://www.beefcakeracing.com - Your Forced Induction Specialists

 

[IndyRN]

car 40-65k,

blower - 6-10k

suspension wheels and tires 7k

fuel system - how cheap can i get...

i see this all the time.

11-17, 1000/1050 injectors and a bap on pump. fuel system for e85
18-20 the tuners really like the 1000s still, but you can squeak by on pump on 47s because of the di, but you have no growing room there. bap still a good idea.

e85 on any year with a power adder, you want a fuel system, car makes power on air / fuel. its the most important thing besides the blower / turbo itself

Feel Free to DM me or call with any questions.
Terry "Beefcake" Reeves
Office - 855-TBR-RACE - Cell 513-478-1965
Owner Team Beefcake - 20+ Years Experience
Deal Directly with the boss, no pushy sales guys!!!!!!!
https://www.beefcakeracing.com - Your Forced Induction Specialists

There's very little information on these boards about the capabilities of the stock system on the 18+ cars. I think it's only natural to ask this question when multiple S/C brands say stock injectors are fine and don't include them in their "complete" kits.

If anything, this post was made to question the fact that they say I don't need to upgrade my injectors.. not to see how cheap I could get by on. I already have 1050X's and a BAP on the way, and did when this thread was started. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a complete overkill for my power goals.


The question was answered. If you're doing FI, it's a good idea to do injectors and BAP at minimum. Can you run mild boost without that? Apparently.. but it's not worth the risk.

 

[cobra199711]

There are some downsides to return style fuel systems, there is no longer a fuel bucket and you have to keep like half a tank of gas at all times especially if you want to do road racing type driving. ALso the fuel is heated constantly which can kill pumps relatively quickly on long road trips if you ever do those.. or if you are idling in traffic for hours in hot weather your fuel is going to be really hot. Also if you run e85 the hotter fuel goes bad quicker and absorbs more moisture. Those are some of the reasons other than cost that I wanted to stay returnless. Im just going with low boost and a good pump and a good BAP good injectors and a good tuner and I live in Florida where it doesnt get very cold. I also have seen reputable people having my combo with smaller pullies with no problems so I am not too worried about fueling issues. Whipple comes with rails and I have ID1050x and a BAP and dw400.

is there a kit that offers a returnless type set up?

 

[Scott413]

I'm at 750 wheel hp with stock fuel pump lines and a bap, but that's the limit. I have id-1050 x injectors, but I'm on the stock pulley (4.88) on my D1x. I have a Fore dual pump fuel system waiting at home to be installed so I can pulley down to a 4.50..looking to do so when the weather here

I have the same setup and sometimes feel the fuel is getting cut in certain throttle positions. Sometimes it happens at full throttle, sometimes under normal acceleration. Any experience with this? I'm wondering if my BAP is losing voltage. Was thinking of upgrading to a dual pump system so it doesn't happen again.

 

[Jackson1320]

is there a kit that offers a returnless type set up?

Yes but they get expensive

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