Ford Inspector for Warranty Repair-Update:Warranty Denied Claim Due to Off Road Racing

[Mike Pfeifer]

This has been an exceptionally educational thread. I have heard plenty of “it should work out like this” or “they will have to rule in this way because” over the years but I have never seen where someone actually went through the whole process for this scenario. I did see one where a car “was not properly maintained” as determined by the warranty inspector that went to court (that person lost as well). Thanks for documenting this, it should help people make decisions in the future.

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[JimC]

Except many years ago a person drove into a MacDonalds drive thru for a cup of HOT coffee and proceeded to put it between her legs while driving away and when it spilled and burned her, she sued and WON. What idiot puts a cup of hot coffee between their legs while driving and thinks they will not get burned when it spills.

Guess who won, the customer.

BD

Everyone uses that story, but simplifies it like this.

The reason she won is because McDonald's had been warned for years that their coffee was being served too hot, and people were getting burned. They made no changes until after this case. They lost because they ignored the issue until someone was severely burned.'

And on appeal the award was reduced.

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

As a guy who worked in the legal profession, some who have been Arbitrators late in life........when I heard this claim was going to Arbitration.....................I asked the question of drinking Lawyers at the Elks Club and Yacht Club...to a person. the said...... "RACING?" GTFO....!!

A PRECEDENT CANNOT BE SET that would destroy Ford from 100,00 such claims a year.

You were doomed from the start......90% of the population if asked the same thing would be aghast...........

As Graham Hill once said..."racing is expensive..how fast to you want to go?"

I think ford did well by you, overall.

The Ford Racing School cars that are for sale were maintained throughout their careers, being driven by amateurs, and Ford has pretty good idea of parts durability..............AND WHAT DRIVING STYLE BREAKS PARTS...

Young man, examine yourself first.

Sorry, but, what? Above made no sense to me. Is it because english is my third language?

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

The arbitrator seems to have been hung up on "use of a vehicle at very high speeds on a track is not covered [because that is racing]". I'm sure that most of us will disagree with that, as we know there's a world of difference between wheel-to-wheel racing and HPDE, but that is how it was unfortunately decided by this arbitrator.

I would have hoped for, if not necessarily expected, at least a little subject specific competence from the arbitrator. To my parents, with zero interests in cars/motorsports, me going to a trackday/HPDE-event sounds like I'm going racing, but presumably I could make them see the difference if I cared to spend enough effort, though it would be an uphill battle.

Unfortunately this arbitrator was unable to see the difference and made a bad ruling IMO.
I don't think this means that other arbitration cases will necessary be ruled the same way, but OP graciously posting the decision here provides very useful information for others when preparing their own arbitration case. Hats off to him.

 

[v guy]

This thread is a reality check...............the Warranty will not cover HPDE as it IS racing, no trophies but it is racing.

Everybody knows that, even non English speaking peoples, and plenty of Hot Rodders who do time trials.


Marie Antoinette said to let them eat cake and have it too, but not Ford.

I suggest consulting/hiring a Lawyer, or even finding one who might take a case like this...........





SCCA Track nites are simply practice sessions where you go faster and faster.

You have set a precedent for Arbitrators in similar cases nationwide, and that's a fact jack.

Buy a Mustang and race for free on Ford when the car breaks?
Mushrooms, LSD might cause such an idea.

Be a man, pay for the ****** damages....you broke it...buy spares like others do and drive a bit more conservatively..or race a dedicated track car...

Unless it is the Mustang Profile that you need for ID/self awareness..........they say you are what you drive in California.
Even in Regional competition where I would go afap..ever engine blown was on me. This is not welfare racing land.

 

[2fast2focus]

Wouldn’t SCCA track nights count as HPDE? If not what would you say is the difference?

It’s interesting to see that even between us there are various interpretations for what HPDE is. Some say it’s racing and others do not.

Full disclosure, I am in the camp where HPDE is not racing.

 

[Finally21]

Ahh Personal attacks! Not a Lawyer but my son, Grandson, Two first Cousins, one a State Supreme Ct Justice, DIL are....inspired by me....I was an expert witness..I will put it that way.

Old Judges lived thru NASCAR, F1, anddrag racing days of old friends............many lawyers raced.

FACTS, are the killer in ANY case..........
Guardhouse lawyers area dime a dozen.......most ignore facts too, in favor of some really imaginative ideations or innocence.

Trying to explain that your on track activities did not constitute racing . is like the explanation that 'I just put them on the trains." ...I just shifted at 7500 rpm session after session......It does prove Ford durability from your driving style, and the common sense of Arbitrators.

Well then given you have family that are lawyers that certainly raises your street

This thread is a reality check...............the Warranty will not cover HPDE as it IS racing, no trophies but it is racing.

Everybody knows that, even non English speaking peoples, and plenty of Hot Rodders who do time trials.


Marie Antoinette said to let them eat cake and have it too, but not Ford.

I suggest consulting/hiring a Lawyer, or even finding one who might take a case like this...........





SCCA Track nites are simply practice sessions where you go faster and faster.

You have set a precedent for Arbitrators in similar cases nationwide, and that's a fact jack.

Buy a Mustang and race for free on Ford when the car breaks?
Mushrooms, LSD might cause such an idea.

Be a man, pay for the ****** damages....you broke it...buy spares like others do and drive a bit more conservatively..or race a dedicated track car...

Unless it is the Mustang Profile that you need for ID/self awareness..........they say you are what you drive in California.
Even in Regional competition where I would go afap..ever engine blown was on me. This is not welfare racing land.

We are all much dumber for reading what you wrote. Whatever it was.

 

[v guy]

HPDE, is essentially racing, same as Track nites and time trials...RACING.

FASTER THAN POSTED HIGHWAY SPEED LIMITS.
Arbitrators know this........

I started racing SCCA Regionals/Nat'ls back in the 80's.

MY personal experience is that on track you go as fast as you can, safely or not...........parts fail, spins happen.

The Human brain is not wired to differentiate between SCCA Tracknites, HPDE, Regionals, time trials, and even driving the Nurburgring......for a personal best.

The Red Mist always kicks in.......

Splitting hairs on what constitutes racing is just blowviating before a judge saying that the speed contest between stop lites that resulted in a ticket........ is not racing.

Ford builds tuff trucks...........parts fail in service.

Own up.....we race these cars.

 

[K4fxd]

What most of you seem to be missing is basic common sense.

From reading every post OP is not looking for a free lunch. He bought a "warranty" that was represented by Ford as an extension of his factory Ford warranty. The factory Ford warranty covers track use so long as it is not racing. Anything that is not timed or has a winner.

Now he comes time when he needs to use said extended warranty. It gets denied due to track use that did not have officially timed laps and did not have a winner.

The ESP warranty uses the same terms as the factory warranty. The ESP should say no TRACK use is covered if they want to exclude any track use, or they should define racing as any track use.

 

[K4fxd]

MY personal experience is that on track you go as fast as you can, safely or not...........parts fail, spins happen.

There are some races where you do not go as fast as you can. You try to cover the distance as close to the time posted.

Say the race is 2 miles and the to win you must be closest to 2 minuets.

 

[v guy]

Insurance companies hire photographers to take pics of street cars racing at drag strips..........license plates....mostly.
Industy shares these photos.....but not actual racing cars without plates.

Forstalls warranty claims of any sort..especially collision and blown motors.

You simply cannot race for free on Ford......so many water damaged Mustangs are for sale thru CoPart, that any serious racer would have one.

I see no dillitante, slow mustangs on track anywhere...full throttle is full throtttle.

I am most impressed with normal Mustang GT's successfully on track, with nothing but HP brake pads.
Have fun!!

 

[luc]

Wouldn’t SCCA track nights count as HPDE? If not what would you say is the difference?

It’s interesting to see that even between us there are various interpretations for what HPDE is. Some say it’s racing and others do not.

Full disclosure, I am in the camp where HPDE is not racing.

I think that for people that goes to the track, they know that hpde and racing are not the same
For everyone else, it’s about the same

 

[K4fxd]

You simply cannot race for free on Ford...

If you bought a new GT350 Ford's factory warranty covered track use. HPDE ect...

You know not of what you speak.

Drag racing would not be covered since it is timed.

 

[WItoTX]

What most of you seem to be missing is basic common sense.

From reading every post OP is not looking for a free lunch. He bought a "warranty" that was represented by Ford as an extension of his factory Ford warranty. The factory Ford warranty covers track use so long as it is not racing. Anything that is not timed or has a winner.

Now he comes time when he needs to use said extended warranty. It gets denied due to track use that did not have officially timed laps and did not have a winner.

The ESP warranty uses the same terms as the factory warranty. The ESP should say no TRACK use is covered if they want to exclude any track use, or they should define racing as any track use.

See and this is where Ford should be paying OP back for the warranty then. They misrepresented what the warranty covers, he reasonably relied on on that representation, and now they are refusing to cover.

 

[BlkMach10510]

“Taking your Mustang onto a track does not void the warranty,” confirms Matt Leaver of Ford Performance communications. “However, if the car features non-OEM modifications, is involved in competitive racing, or is damaged due to driver error or driver abuse, the warranty will not cover that damage. Defects in material and workmanship that are not pilot error or track-related would be covered. This is the same for any Mustang, from an EcoBoost up to the Shelby GT500.”

"Leaver explains that even the base EcoBoost Mustang does not need to have the optional Performance Package to be covered for track driving. As long as you follow Ford’s reasonable conditions, the company will honor its warranty obligations."

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