FFTEC Engine Build in Progress

[Edkiefer]

Hi all, my first post .

David@FFtec , question on stock connecting rods , you see any foreseen issue with them on say stock engine with mild bolt-ons (like max 375-400hp )?

I ask, cause I used to work on many turbo cars back in 86-92 and had XR4ti .
I only had mild bolt ons, borla exhaust , larger turbo intake side , 18lb boost .

Well I was doing head work and found 3 of 4 pistons below deck , and found out the rods on those old 2.3 were not very strong .

My point is just wonder how good these are , I don't plan to track car , didn't with Xr4ti either . I couldn't find much info on them other than basic forged rods/cast pistons .
I looked up there price and was pretty cheap ,40$ or so just wondering how these are (I know 2015 eco boost only been out almost a yr but since you have done engine work you be one to know

PS: I don't have a 2015 yet, just doing research on it .

Thanks ahead.
Ed

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[dragonacc]

Cross posted from FFTEC's photo blog. Can't wait to see how it runs in the car.

 

[David@FFtec]

Hi all, my first post .

David@FFtec , question on stock connecting rods , you see any foreseen issue with them on say stock engine with mild bolt-ons (like max 375-400hp )?

I ask, cause I used to work on many turbo cars back in 86-92 and had XR4ti .
I only had mild bolt ons, borla exhaust , larger turbo intake side , 18lb boost .

Well I was doing head work and found 3 of 4 pistons below deck , and found out the rods on those old 2.3 were not very strong .

My point is just wonder how good these are , I don't plan to track car , didn't with Xr4ti either . I couldn't find much info on them other than basic forged rods/cast pistons .
I looked up there price and was pretty cheap ,40$ or so just wondering how these are (I know 2015 eco boost only been out almost a yr but since you have done engine work you be one to know

PS: I don't have a 2015 yet, just doing research on it .

Thanks ahead.
Ed

Hi Ed,
That's a good question. Yes the limits and capabilities of this engine well known. The rods are the weak link. They tend to bend and break from making too much torque at low rpm. My recommendation for a reliable daily driver that is fed a strict diet of ordinary 91 octane is to keep torque below 380 Lb-Ft.

On the other hand, the engine will safely handle over 400HP with an upgraded turbo and other bolt-on upgrades if the tune is good. Adding bolt-on upgrades such as an exhaust, intake, intercooler and turbo will allow the engine to breath freely in the upper RPM ranges and make good power safely.

 

[Edkiefer]

Hi Ed,
That's a good question. Yes the limits and capabilities of this engine well known. The rods are the weak link. They tend to bend and break from making too much torque at low rpm. My recommendation for a reliable daily driver that is fed a strict diet of ordinary 91 octane is to keep torque below 380 Lb-Ft.

On the other hand, the engine will safely handle over 400HP with an upgraded turbo and other bolt-on upgrades if the tune is good. Adding bolt-on upgrades such as an exhaust, intake, intercooler and turbo will allow the engine to breath freely in the upper RPM ranges and make good power safely.

Thanks for reply , that is what I was "guessing" .

So I am guessing a tune and say intercooler upgrade, maybe CAI and piping would be fine , under your amount ?

Also few questions if you don't mind , this engine management is speed density type ? I don't see MAS sensor listed in parts .
Also when does rev limiter kick in on a stock engines .

Thanks for info .

PS: its amazing what these new engines put out compared to old SVO 2.3L .

Ed

 

[David@FFtec]

Thanks for reply , that is what I was "guessing" .

So I am guessing a tune and say intercooler upgrade, maybe CAI and piping would be fine , under your amount ?

Also few questions if you don't mind , this engine management is speed density type ? I don't see MAS sensor listed in parts .
Also when does rev limiter kick in on a stock engines .

Thanks for info .

PS: its amazing what these new engines put out compared to old SVO 2.3L .

Ed

I hear you. Back then a 4 cylinder engine making 175 to 200 hp was incredible. It was very advanced for the time, equiped with fuel injection and an intercooler. Even the XR4Ti just had a hot pipe. Here we are 30 years later with 310 HP from the factory. For comparison, the V8 in the 2004 Mustang GT had just 260HP.

It reminds me of a shop tour I was giving to a new customer a couple weeks ago. He was impressed with the typical power level we were getting from customers cars, so as we were walking toward the engine build room I loosely gestured in the general direction of a row of built motors mounted on engine stands and said, "over there we have a Mustang engine that's going to make around 550 HP." He was a Mustang fan, so he walked over to check it out, then he became quiet and looked a little confused. He walked past the EcoBooost engine ( the engine in this thread), looked at a couple BMW N54 inline 6 (obviously wasn't a Mustang engine) , then past a Porsche 911 Turbo GT2 flat 6, then a Chevy LSx with turbo manifolds and hi-rise intake (pictured earlier in this thread). Then he asked, 'OK so you're doing an engine swap in a Mustang?"
;) haha, not quite So I told him about our EcoBoost engines and he said :eyebulge:

This car is surprising a lot of people, both domestic and import fans alike. No one expected to see an inline 4 in a Mustang, and there's very few people who know that it's fast! I'm having fun with it, that's for sure.


So, to answer your questions;
Yes the factory engine management is speed/density. It's very accurate with two air temp sensors; one is located in the intake manifold and one just after the air filter. It has two pressure sensors, the main 3Bar Tmap sensor on the intake mani, and another on the intercooler outlet.

The rev limit on the stock engine is 6500rpm.

The upgrade path depends on how you use the car. For all cars the tune makes the biggest difference. Just be aware that there are different levels of tune, some are going for max power at the expense of reliability. Like I said earlier, a daily driver on pump gas should remain conservative. Also be aware of your driving habits. If you only go full throttle for a few seconds at a time, maybe just a 1,2,3rd gear pull, then you can get away will more. OTOH if you live in a hilly area where you need to hit boost regularly, then better cooling is more important. FYI, the Performance Pack option from Ford includes a better radiator, among other upgrades.

These cars had a few minor issues from the factory. Some of the intercooler pipe clamps were loose and let a coupler pop off. The solution is simple; just tighten the clamps properly. Spark plug gaps were inconsistant, it didn't cause problems at stock power levels but when the power goes up it might cause misfires, hesitation or at worst sputtering. Again the solution is simple, just regap the plugs or get a set of new, colder plugs and set them to the correct gap. Otherwise this engine has been good.

If you'd like I can discuss the details of the upgrade path for your car when you're ready. Just send me a PM or email the shop. I'd be glad to help you get the most out of your car.

 

[Edkiefer]

I hear you. Back then a 4 cylinder engine making 175 to 200 hp was incredible. It was very advanced for the time, equiped with fuel injection and an intercooler. Even the XR4Ti just had a hot pipe. Here we are 30 years later with 310 HP from the factory. For comparison, the V8 in the 2004 Mustang GT had just 260HP.

It reminds me of a shop tour I was giving to a new customer a couple weeks ago. He was impressed with the typical power level we were getting from customers cars, so as we were walking toward the engine build room I loosely gestured in the general direction of a row of built motors mounted on engine stands and said, "over there we have a Mustang engine that's going to make around 550 HP." He was a Mustang fan, so he walked over to check it out, then he became quiet and looked a little confused. He walked past the EcoBooost engine ( the engine in this thread), looked at a couple BMW N54 inline 6 (obviously wasn't a Mustang engine) , then past a Porsche 911 Turbo GT2 flat 6, then a Chevy LSx with turbo manifolds and hi-rise intake (pictured earlier in this thread). Then he asked, 'OK so you're doing an engine swap in a Mustang?"
;) haha, not quite So I told him about our EcoBoost engines and he said :eyebulge:

This car is surprising a lot of people, both domestic and import fans alike. No one expected to see an inline 4 in a Mustang, and there's very few people who know that it's fast! I'm having fun with it, that's for sure.


So, to answer your questions;
Yes the factory engine management is speed/density. It's very accurate with two air temp sensors located in the intake manifold and one just after the air filter. It has two pressure sensors, the main 3Bar sensor on the intake mani, and another on the intercooler outlet.

The rev limit on the stock engine is 6500rpm.

The upgrade path depends on how you use the car. For all cars the tune makes the biggest difference. Just be aware that there are different levels of tune, some are going for max power at the expense of reliability. Like I said earlier, a daily driver on pump gas should remain conservative. Also be aware of your driving habits. If you only go full throttle for a few seconds at a time, maybe just a 1,2,3rd gear pull, then you can get away will more. OTOH if you live in a hilly area where you need to hit boost regularly, then better cooling is more important. FYI, the Performance Pack option from Ford includes a better radiator, among other upgrades.

These cars had a few minor issues from the factory. Some of the intercooler pipe clamps were loose and let a coupler pop off. The solution is simple; just tighten the clamps properly. Spark plug gaps were inconsistant, it didn't cause problems at stock power levels but when the power goes up it might cause misfires, hesitation or at worst sputtering. Again the solution is simple, just regap the plugs or get a set of new, colder plugs and set them to the correct gap. Otherwise this engine has been good.

If you'd like I can discuss the details of the upgrade path for your car when you're ready. Just send me a PM or email the shop. I'd be glad to help you get the most out of your car.

Yup, ain't that the truth .
Like I kind of mentioned, I used to work in a performance shop , we worked mainly on the turbo cars back then (RX-7, Supra 3.0, Nissan 300zx V6-3.0L twin turbo , Dodge/Mit 2.0 turbo etc , few Porsche 911 Turbo and ford 2.3 turbo Tbird/SVO )
Anyway, mostly bolt on stuff, intercoolers, turbo upgrades ,exhausts etc .
A lot of HKS stuff ( I really like there stuff ) but yeh, few cars could pull 400hp with a lot of work ,V6 ones . Like My XR4ti I never dyno it but I doubt it went above 250 and that was larger intercooler added, larger turbo-18lb , SVO ECU/MAF and rest, of car, suspension , tranny (5 speed Mustang GT) .

Anyway, I always like how it handled , very nimble etc .

That's cool they have two map and temp sensors , they are able to check delta temps and pressure so better fuel/ignition maps .
Should also make larger turbo and intercoolers with better support I would imagine .

I have read about few issues posted on forum , most are non issue for me .

Yes, I am more conservative now, i would go 91-93 on fuel and not much higher on boost if possible, whatever that would come out to .
not looking to race it, just enjoy, drive it .

I sure will PM when I get one as i said, still looking but I like what i see feature wise (engine/trans combo's ) .

thanks for help and info .

Ed

 

[Sup3rPat]

Updates? Engine build complete?

 

[David@FFtec]

Updates? Engine build complete?

The engine build is complete and the engine is installed. I was hoping to start the engine a couple weeks ago but we've been busy! There were also a couple of side projects that delayed this project too. Sorry I haven't been on the forums much lately! I have a bunch of cool pics I want to share when I get the chance.

First I want to thank ShaftMasters for working with us to develop and bring a new mod to EcoBoost customers! It's a lightweight 3.5" aluminum driveshaft for the Mustang EcoBoost! Please call, email or PM for pricing and more details.

Secondly I'd also like to let you all know that a lightweight flywheel is in the works, too. I've been working with a reputable manufacturer to bring a true performance flywheel to market. It's still too early to say much more tho.

We're also testing several versions of supplemental fuel systems. You may have seen our prototype pics that were linked a couple weeks ago. The hardware is solid, the electronics are highly advanced, and it'll have adaptability to grow as you add mods in the future. We're still working out the firmware, but I can say that it uses a proprietary controller with advanced features to suit everything from a bone stock car up to fully built big turbo monsters.

 

[dragonacc]

Super excited to see this project come to a finish! There's good and bad news on my end. Bad news is I won't be able to drive the car till November because I'll be TDY till then. Good news is I'll be flying out to CA to pick up the car when I get home so I'll get to meet all the guys at FFTEC in person that made the build possible.

 

[Ron@cp-e]

The engine build is complete and the engine is installed. I was hoping to start the engine a couple weeks ago but we've been busy! There were also a couple of side projects that delayed this project too. Sorry I haven't been on the forums much lately! I have a bunch of cool pics I want to share when I get the chance.

First I want to thank ShaftMasters for working with us to develop and bring a new mod to EcoBoost customers! It's a lightweight 3.5" aluminum driveshaft for the Mustang EcoBoost! Please call, email or PM for pricing and more details.

Secondly I'd also like to let you all know that a lightweight flywheel is in the works, too. I've been working with a reputable manufacturer to bring a true performance flywheel to market. It's still too early to say much more tho.

We're also testing several versions of supplemental fuel systems. You may have seen our prototype pics that were linked a couple weeks ago. The hardware is solid, the electronics are highly advanced, and it'll have adaptability to grow as you add mods in the future. We're still working out the firmware, but I can say that it uses a proprietary controller with advanced features to suit everything from a bone stock car up to fully built big turbo monsters.

actually this interests me
please link again for those that missed it

 

[PewterCam]

.... We're also testing several versions of supplemental fuel systems. You may have seen our prototype pics that were linked a couple weeks ago. The hardware is solid, the electronics are highly advanced, and it'll have adaptability to grow as you add mods in the future. We're still working out the firmware, but I can say that it uses a proprietary controller with advanced features to suit everything from a bone stock car up to fully built big turbo monsters.

Ohhhh... I like the sound of that. The one thing stopping me from going big turbo right now is fueling. I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

 

[PewterCam]

actually this interests me
please link again for those that missed it

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=729701&postcount=80

 

[PewterCam]

...First I want to thank ShaftMasters for working with us to develop and bring a new mod to EcoBoost customers! It's a lightweight 3.5" aluminum driveshaft for the Mustang EcoBoost! Please call, email or PM for pricing and more details.

Do they make a DS for the Auto EBM? Thus far everything has been for GT's and Manual EBM's. When I called various places I was told they do not have one for the Auto EBM and I'm for sure not going to gamble and buy one for the GT and hope it fits. I only want one because I've had Experience with 2 piece DS's on a couple cars and its not something I want to recreate.

 

[gte]

I am very interested to see pump gas and race gas dynos with this turbo on the 2.3 EB, and to see different boost levels achieved on pump gas with this turbo as well as the torque curve on the dyno

How long do you think until that information is available on the forum, please don't say November!

Super excited to see this project come to a finish! There's good and bad news on my end. Bad news is I won't be able to drive the car till November because I'll be TDY till then. Good news is I'll be flying out to CA to pick up the car when I get home so I'll get to meet all the guys at FFTEC in person that made the build possible.

 

[David@FFtec]

Super excited to see this project come to a finish! There's good and bad news on my end. Bad news is I won't be able to drive the car till November because I'll be TDY till then. Good news is I'll be flying out to CA to pick up the car when I get home so I'll get to meet all the guys at FFTEC in person that made the build possible.

I'm looking forward to meeting you as well! :cheers:

actually this interests me
please link again for those that missed it

The pic was posted in the Build thread for our shop car. Check out the thread here;
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12744&page=5

Also, you really should check out our Photo thread, you'll find news, projects, cool cars and plenty of stuff that makes it fun to work at a shop every day.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19897&page=3

I encourage everyone to subscribe to those threads.

Ohhhh... I like the sound of that. The one thing stopping me from going big turbo right now is fueling. I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

I hear you. Not everyone can commute and drive daily on race gas, and mixing a special blend of E85 everytime you fill up is a pain. We're planning to make our fuel upgrade as practical as possible.

I'd also plan ahead when shopping for turbo upgrades since fuel upgrades are just around the corner. Just a reminder- our turbo upgrade kit includes a durable ball bearing billet turbo with a water cooled center section at no extra cost. Results from our customers show that the Borg Warner EFR7670 is a solid choice for a daily driver on strict pump gas, providing excellent spoolup and response while still being capable of supporting well over 500WHP.

If there's any drag racers out there, just get the EFR8374. It's a 62mm billet turbo that's capable of supporting over 650WHP while proven to spool up at just 3900rpm. It's a killer combination that lets the auto trans get up on the converter early.

Do they make a DS for the Auto EBM? Thus far everything has been for GT's and Manual EBM's. When I called various places I was told they do not have one for the Auto EBM and I'm for sure not going to gamble and buy one for the GT and hope it fits. I only want one because I've had Experience with 2 piece DS's on a couple cars and its not something I want to recreate.

I'd recommend contacting ShaftMasters and see if they checked fitment on the EBM auto yet. Most of our local customers have the manual and I don't see an auto on our schedule in the next couple weeks. I'll keep checking for you.

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