Engine Exploded need short block~~~right now!

[Juben]

BTW, a common cause of stock engines blowing is a stuck injector (well, on the fractions of a percent that do fail). This has been tracked down on numerous F150's, ST's etc. Something to consider

There's a thread I've been monitoring where the injector flow rate on the failed cylinder was considerably less than the flow rate on the other cylinders in failed FoST engines. Although this has not been definitively confirmed as a source point of failures, some early data would seem to suggest to this being a culprit.

Although a fuel system cleaner wouldn't clean the valves, it might be prudent to run a bottle of high quality fuel system cleaner, like the Chevron w/Techron, through the fuel system every 10k miles or so to help keep the injectors themselves clean. That's what I've done with my rides, both EcoBoost and non-EcoBoost alike, for a number of years.

If you think about the operating environment of the injectors in a DI setup over a PI setup, it would seem plausible that the injectors would stand to have a higher chance of build up thereby limiting flow. When you limit flow on an injector, especially on a high performance engine, bad things can happen.

I've wanted to discuss this topic more in detail, however, since the findings and theories are still in the early stages, I didn't want to cause a panic around here. I would love to see some data on the injectors from the failed EBM engines to see if there's any similarities with what's being seen on the FoSTs.

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[TEXAS HEAT]

Problems all started one month ago with the install of the Wastegate actuator. I was getting tune revised for it...first noticed whistling noise under WOT, then one instance of turbo flutter, then cracked plug. Plug just split in half, insulator and electrode hit ground strap, never fell into cylinder. Replaced plugs, revised tune, still getting whistling at WOT, then easing onto highway at 55 mph 3000 rpm...BOOM!

That sucks man! I've been there.:frusty:

 

[MAPerformance]

Independent shop will be doing work. I can easily get an OEM short block but if I can upgrade and go after market for the same price, why not? My problem is I can't wait too long because this was my daily driver. Suggestions?

We may have 1 or two on the shelf ready for you! ;) Send me a PM!

 

[TEXAS HEAT]

There's a thread I've been monitoring where the injector flow rate on the failed cylinder was considerably less than the flow rate on the other cylinders in failed FoST engines. Although this has not been definitively confirmed as a source point of failures, some early data would seem to suggest to this being a culprit.

Although a fuel system cleaner wouldn't clean the valves, it might be prudent to run a bottle of high quality fuel system cleaner, like the Chevron w/Techron, through the fuel system every 10k miles or so to help keep the injectors themselves clean. That's what I've done with my rides, both EcoBoost and non-EcoBoost alike, for a number of years.

If you think about the operating environment of the injectors in a DI setup over a PI setup, it would seem plausible that the injectors would stand to have a higher chance of build up thereby limiting flow. When you limit flow on an injector, especially on a high performance engine, bad things can happen.

I've wanted to discuss this topic more in detail, however, since the findings and theories are still in the early stages, I didn't want to cause a panic around here. I would love to see some data on the injectors from the failed EBM engines to see if there's any similarities with what's being seen on the FoSTs.

I find that rather interesting...

I'm currently going through the tuning process and on my latest datalog I noticed that cylinder #2 ignition corrections although positive, is less than the other three cylinders which are all inline with one another. I'm curious if this is normal or if I should pull the plugs just to make sure everything is working as it should? Could this be a fuel delivery phenomenon?

On a side note- In my opinion this is what makes the Cobb AP superior to any other tuning devices available. For me, having the ability to monitor, datalog and review is an invaluable tool even if its just for peace of mind that everything is functioning normally. I get that "set it and forget" is desirable to some, it just doesn't cut it for me.

 

[perfweld]

I find that rather interesting...

I'm currently going through the tuning process and on my latest datalog I noticed that cylinder #2 ignition corrections although positive, is less than the other three cylinders which are all inline with one another. I'm curious if this is normal or if I should pull the plugs just to make sure everything is working as it should? Could this be a fuel delivery phenomenon?

On a side note- In my opinion this is what makes the Cobb AP superior to any other tuning devices available. For me, having the ability to monitor, datalog and review is an invaluable tool even if its just for peace of mind that everything is functioning normally. I get that "set it and forget" is desirable to some, it just doesn't cut it for me.

The Lund N Gauge monitors all 4 cylinders as far as timing as well, among lots of other things. As far as pulling or adding time, my car is very inconsistent cylinder to cylinder as well. When it pulls a lot from one or two cylinders, your in trouble.

 

[TheLion]

The BOV may not have anything to do with the failure, so we can't assume it does simply by it's time association, although it could possibly play into it, which is only speculation at this point.

Periodic knock over long term can cause fatigue failures. You have the regular heating and cooling stresses combined with the tension and compression stresses of each stroke, thrown in periodic or recurring knock and the piston heads may be fatiguing. The question then becomes, why is it knocking...?

Certainly a stuck injector would cause a very lean condition in the cylinder which causes excessively high heat and an environment ripe for per-detonation, which fatigues the piston more with each occurrence (super knock can result in immediate failures). In TDI or DI engines the fuel is one of the primary methods of achieving cylinder head cooling which allows for the higher compression ratios or higher boost levels we see in those engines. But we need to use higher octane fuels as well to combat self-ignition.

I think Juben may be onto something with the enjectors, this seems to be a classic knock fatigue failure and I'll be the piston, rings, lands or wrist pin have failed. The injector may not necessarily need to be stuck, but inadequate flow will cause higher temperatures, thus per-detonation of varying degrees as well.

I would agree with Juben that using periodic fuel system cleaners is beneficial. Seafoam is another cleaner that is well known and has wide application in cleaning and lubricating the fuel system.

It actually re-moistens the deposits, allowing them to become liquid again and be burnt up in the combustion process. However I'm not sure if it's safe to use on TDI engines, as it may affect the octane rating too much, this would need to be looked into.

 

[TEXAS HEAT]

The BOV may not have anything to do with the failure, so we can't assume it does simply by it's time association, although it could possibly play into it, which is only speculation at this point.

Periodic knock over long term can cause fatigue failures. You have the regular heating and cooling stresses combined with the tension and compression stresses of each stroke, thrown in periodic or recurring knock and the piston heads may be fatiguing. The question then becomes, why is it knocking...?

Certainly a stuck injector would cause a very lean condition in the cylinder which causes excessively high heat and an environment ripe for per-detonation, which fatigues the piston more with each occurrence (super knock can result in immediate failures). In TDI or DI engines the fuel is one of the primary methods of achieving cylinder head cooling which allows for the higher compression ratios or higher boost levels we see in those engines. But we need to use higher octane fuels as well to combat self-ignition.

I think Juben may be onto something with the enjectors, this seems to be a classic knock fatigue failure and I'll be the piston, rings, lands or wrist pin have failed. The injector may not necessarily need to be stuck, but inadequate flow will cause higher temperatures, thus per-detonation of varying degrees as well.

I would agree with Juben that using periodic fuel system cleaners is beneficial. Seafoam is another cleaner that is well known and has wide application in cleaning and lubricating the fuel system.

It actually re-moistens the deposits, allowing them to become liquid again and be burnt up in the combustion process. However I'm not sure if it's safe to use on TDI engines, as it may affect the octane rating too much, this would need to be looked into.

I'm not discounting the merits of using injector cleaner from time to time, but if you use a Top Tier detergent gasoline, does this negate the need to do this?

 

[doulos4jc]

My next mod was gonna be water/meth injection...but was NOT going to tune for it. It was for valve cleaning and cooling purposes. Plus a little performance bump.

 

[TheLion]

Another thought on this, this would also be why you should only purchase the highest octane rating you can get locally and avoid small stations as they have a tendancy to run their tanks much lower, increasing the liklihood that the water at the bottom of the tank will be mixed in.

Naturally the fuel sits above the water, separated, however if the tank level becomes too low, water will be pulled up as well, diluting the octane rating.

Catch Cans also go a long way in addressing this issue as well, intake valves get coated in oil residue from the PCV system, but some of that will also make it's way onto the injectors and cylinder head as the air and fuel is mixed and then compressed in the chamber. Actually I believe fuel is injected in both compression stroke and during the earlier parts of the ignition stroke (2x) in some engines, although I'm not sure about the ecoboost. Regardless that vaporized oil coats everything and is a significant contributor to carbon fouling in TDI engines.

Running a cooler thermostat, such as a 160F thermostat will also help protect against knock. Too aggressive PCM strategies are probably the biggest cause as catastrophic stock EB failures are pretty rare, usually they are modified. It would seem a combination of several factors rather than the proverbial "golden egg" we all have a bad habit of looking for. Usually it's NOT just one thing...

I think those of us mydifying our cars should seriously consider the items collaboratively put togeather in the TST Optamization thread (in no particular order):

1. Intercooler upgrade - provides cooler intake air which helps keep cylinder head temps down, creates a less volatile mixture and eliminates reduced power output often seen due to heat soak of the stock unit.
2. 1 to 2 step colder plugs such as NGK or Brisk - protection against knock
3. 160F Thermostat - keeps cylinder head and cylinder wall temps lower
4. Dual valve Oil Catch Can - eliminates PCV related oil contamination
5. Low NOAC value oil - prevents oil burn off / vaporization thus lowering the amount of oil getting into the intake system with or without a catch can
6. If tuning run a 91 tune but use only 93 octane, provides headroom against knock and 91 tunes are usually only a few HP less, for example LMS stated their 91 is only 10HP less than the 93...also provides headroom for diluted winter blends if you live in an "all season" state or insurance when traveling if 91 is all that can be found
7. Periodic fuel system cleaner to keep the injectors clean and lubricated
8. Use paper filters instead of oil based or dry media based filters, it's a simple fact that paper filters provide the highest levels of filtration and the power gains going to an oil or dry based synthetic filter are typcially small unless a highly modified engine, even then unless your pushing for records, if it's a DD why risk contamination that can create hot spots? LMS, Bama etc. are able to run 12's on bone stock cars with just a tune...doesn't seem worth the risk. The Ford Racing CAI however uses a paper media conical filter, that MAY be worth the upgrade.

 

[TEXAS HEAT]

In general, I agree with points 2 thru 5 and 7, but I have thoughts and/or opinions on parts 1,6 and 8. Allow me to elaborate:

Step-1 The intercooler upgrade without a tune is likely going to hinder performance because you will experience less boost at the intake manifold without a tune designed to compensate for this condition. At least I did as a result of the CP-E install.

Step 6- I think your referring to canned tunes, where I tend to agree with running a 91 tune while actually running 93 octane in the tank. I did this as well on the Cobb OTS Stage 1 for the added insurance. However, where I disagree is when utilizing a custom tune that is optimized for your specific fuel quality in your area which I feel to be more advantageous than a blanket tune.

Step 8- The AEM Dry Flo has 99% of the filtering capabilities of a paper filter, but is washable and reusable for life. If I only lose 1% of filtration, that's acceptable to me.

 

[Turbong]

In general, I agree with points 2 thru 5 and 7, but I have thoughts and/or opinions on parts 1,6 and 8. Allow me to elaborate:

Step-1 The intercooler upgrade without a tune is likely going to hinder performance because you will experience less boost at the intake manifold without a tune designed to compensate for this condition. At least I did as a result of the CP-E install.

Step 6- I think your referring to canned tunes, where I tend to agree with running a 91 tune while actually running 93 octane in the tank. I did this as well on the Cobb OTS Stage 1 for the added insurance. However, where I disagree is when utilizing a custom tune that is optimized for your specific fuel quality in your area which I feel to be more advantageous than a blanket tune.

Step 8- The AEM Dry Flo has 99% of the filtering capabilities of a paper filter, but is washable and reusable for life. If I only lose 1% of filtration, that's acceptable to me.

What about the Green filter, do you know the filtration percentage? As for the IC if it is in fact true that is really bad news for warranty life peeps, I hope more testing gets done to see if it is as fact across the board.

 

[TheLion]

What about the Green filter, do you know the filtration percentage? As for the IC if it is in fact true that is really bad news for warranty life peeps, I hope more testing gets done to see if it is as fact across the board.

The heat soak issue with the IC is well known and has been thoroughly documented by multiple sources. Unless Ford changes the design that's not going to change. I have a May 2016 build, nothing has changed so far as I just replaced my IC (and yes, it's night and day difference in the consistency and response of the engine).

 

[jbailer]

What about the Green filter, do you know the filtration percentage? As for the IC if it is in fact true that is really bad news for warranty life peeps, I hope more testing gets done to see if it is as fact across the board.

It's not bad for warranty. If you don't replace it and leave it stock, it will just heat up quick. As it heats up, the ECU will pull timing and make the engine operate safely, just with a lot less power than it could, that is the point. If you do replace it, I can't see any dealer voiding a warranty claim. To be sure though, it is always best to talk to the service manager at the dealer you would take the car to.

 

[Juben]

The factory intercooler is crap. A quick sub-forum search will return a lot of useful information in regards to that. As Lion and jbailer said, it's been well documented and proven. And to be honest, all of the intercoolers across the EcoBoost line as a whole are pretty craptastic.

The thing is, first and foremost, these engines were designed around the Eco part more so than the boost part. Yes, they have turbos, forged internals, and respond well to mods, but in the end, they were built to produce the power of a slightly larger engine in a smaller, more fuel efficient package. As such, some of the stock parts are designed only to perform decently and efficiently within those limits.

 

[Busser48]

The factory intercooler is crap. A quick sub-forum search will return a lot of useful information in regards to that. As Lion and jbailer said, it's been well documented and proven. And to be honest, all of the intercoolers across the EcoBoost line as a whole are pretty craptastic.

The thing is, first and foremost, these engines were designed around the Eco part more so than the boost part. Yes, they have turbos, forged internals, and respond well to mods, but in the end, they were built to produce the power of a slightly larger engine in a smaller, more fuel efficient package. As such, some of the stock parts are designed only to perform decently and efficiently within those limits.

And this is why I'm always broke.......

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