Electric for everyone - the impossible dream

[K4fxd]

The car culture is viewed in many environmental circles as inherently toxic and unnatural. As a recent New Yorker article put it: “The grip of the car as a metaphor for liberty is as firm as that of guns, if perhaps with similarly destructive results.”186 The transitionists see car ownership as a “cultural attachment” and profess to believe that “fewer cars on the roads would not mean a sacrifice in the quality of life, convenience.” There would be significant “progress” in keeping
people out of cars by banning inexpensive ICE vehicles and mandating expensive EVs.

In the face of all this, it would be reasonable to reach the conclusion that, put simply, they’re coming for your cars.

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[K4fxd]

Final paragraph of the link


Meanwhile, if implemented, ICE bans will lead to a massive misallocation of capital in the world’s $4 trillion personal mobility industry.193 It will also lead to draconian constraints on freedoms and unprecedented impediments to affordable and convenient driving. And it will have little to no impact on global CO2 emissions. In fact, the bans and EV mandates are more likely to cause a net increase in emissions.

 

[K4fxd]

It will also lead to draconian constraints on freedoms and unprecedented impediments to affordable and convenient driving.

I believe this is the ultimate goal.

 

[Cory S]

Why does everyone casually veer off the actual problem area with EV’s???? It’s not the batteries, it’s not the weight. It’s the main fucking factor that will not work as a majority of travel until MANY nuclear plants are built. The SOURCE of this energy is going to be the bottleneck if we ever even THINK of EV’s holding more than 20% of this country’s vehicles registered on the roads. Not to mention the power stations, lines etc that can’t handle an entire neighborhood with all households pulling 35-40A+ of electrical current all night long.

I won’t even get into how much you’ll feel like a complete muppet in the northern states with mountains and sub zero winters trying to drive your toaster more than 50 miles once per day.

 

[K4fxd]

This was written in 1981.

 

[K4fxd]

Why does everyone casually veer off the actual problem area with EV’s?

It is addressed in the OP's link. Trillions of dollars will need to be spent just to install chargers and the associated infrastructure parts. Larger pole mounted transformers will need stronger poles, will need larger and more substations, ect

People seem to think electricity is just there.

A normal gas station converted to all chargers will require the amount of electricity for a small town or a steel mill. EACH station.

It is not feasible.

 

[I Bleed Ford Blue]

A normal gas station converted to all chargers will require the amount of electricity for a steel mill.

It is not feasible.

I work in a steel mill in Cleveland and we have two power plants that generate our own electricity. The amount we can generate is not even a drop in the bucket compared to how much we use. What we do generate is basically enough to do a controlled shut down in case of a total power failure from the outside grid.

 

[K4fxd]

Which steel mill?
I was a supervisor at the steel mill in Newport Ky We had a power plant and we shut it down when we shut off the furnace. We continued to make welded pipe.

Just running the welders at the mills drew 750Kw's of power. Plus all the other motors, cranes lights annealers and it adds up.

A typical gas station has 8 pumps. The study says we need 4 chargers for every pump to keep things moving at a decent pace. If each charger is drawing 350kw from the grid that is more than the Newport steel mill pulled. If they are all slow chargers it is still 50kw's each. or 800 kw.

Now at most interstate exits there are 4 or 5 gas stations...........

Now I know all chargers won't be in use all the time but the supply has to be there for when they are.

 

[sk47]

Why does everyone casually veer off the actual problem area with EV’s???? It’s not the batteries, it’s not the weight. It’s the main fucking factor that will not work as a majority of travel until MANY nuclear plants are built. The SOURCE of this energy is going to be the bottleneck if we ever even THINK of EV’s holding more than 20% of this country’s vehicles registered on the roads. Not to mention the power stations, lines etc that can’t handle an entire neighborhood with all households pulling 35-40A+ of electrical current all night long.

I won’t even get into how much you’ll feel like a complete muppet in the northern states with mountains and sub zero winters trying to drive your toaster more than 50 miles once per day.

Hello; I have a Motor Trend issue with an article about installing a home EV charger. One of the bottom lines is having a 50 amp breaker dedicated for the charger. I happen to have a 200 amp service. 50 amps is 1/4 of my total available service. I have not had an electrician in to check if I can free up 50 amps.
If i do have the capacity, then a home charger might be doable for a $1,000 or so. If I am not that lucky then the cost can be many thousands to get an EV service installed.

Then we get to your comment about a neighborhood pulling power to charge their BEV's plus the rest of the house needs every day.

 

[RagmopInKona]

Problem is those making the rules don't drive they have a driver. And those pushing this ev madness never leave a city center and a subway route .

 

[Cory S]

Problem is those making the rules don't drive they have a driver. And those pushing this ev madness never leave a city center and a subway route .

Yep. It’s all about the money and making it look like solution to a problem that really no longer exists in the passenger car world. Todays ICE vehicles are almost zero emissions, make more power, and get an astounding MPG. Zero credit has been given to these leaps made over the last 20 years. Heck, you can’t even commit suicide in a garage anymore with CO poisoning without having to be in there at least 12 hours+. This country’s air environment has improved tremendously way before EV’s started coming around.

 

[RagmopInKona]

Yep. It’s all about the money and making it look like solution to a problem that really no longer exists in the passenger car world. Todays ICE vehicles are almost zero emissions, make more power, and get an astounding MPG. Zero credit has been given to these leaps made over the last 20 years. Heck, you can’t even commit suicide in a garage anymore with CO poisoning without having to be in there at least 12 hours+. This country’s air environment has improved tremendously way before EV’s started coming around.

101 Corporations account for 78% of all pollution, maybe the holier than tho can get on that instead of the personal vehicle. NA, it is about control and nothing else.

 

[kz]

Yep. It’s all about the money and making it look like solution to a problem that really no longer exists in the passenger car world. Todays ICE vehicles are almost zero emissions, make more power, and get an astounding MPG. Zero credit has been given to these leaps made over the last 20 years. Heck, you can’t even commit suicide in a garage anymore with CO poisoning without having to be in there at least 12 hours+. This country’s air environment has improved tremendously way before EV’s started coming around.

Excellent post. What made be "almost zero emissions" ? Manufacturers thought it would be nice to do or were sort of forced to ? It's how you create progress in an environment where everything is about money. Without forcing it (unfortunately) it will never happen.

 

[ice445]

Yep. It’s all about the money and making it look like solution to a problem that really no longer exists in the passenger car world. Todays ICE vehicles are almost zero emissions, make more power, and get an astounding MPG. Zero credit has been given to these leaps made over the last 20 years. Heck, you can’t even commit suicide in a garage anymore with CO poisoning without having to be in there at least 12 hours+. This country’s air environment has improved tremendously way before EV’s started coming around.

That's part of the problem though, isn't it? We've had massive leaps in ICE technology, and all it was used for was making larger/heavier vehicles with decent mpg, and faster vehicles. Which is great, don't get me wrong. But economy cars continue to languish on lots because nobody wants to be seen in one despite the amazing efficiency you get now.

I still think EV's have a solid place going forward, even if they can't replace everything. An electric economy car (like the bolt) with about 150 miles of range is perfect for so many people. But the economics to produce something like that don't really work out, so all we're seeing is luxury oriented EV's and SUV ones that aren't really that great compared to their gas counterparts while costing a fortune. Being able to charge at home removes most of the negative aspects, but most middle and low income people don't have that option these days (let alone affording the cost of the vehicle in the first place).

Speaking of the Bolt, I captured this funny sandwich picture at my work today. As much as I appreciate the Bolt and how good it is for the price, what would you rather drive? This question is a big problem going forward with the EV "revolution". Americans despite economy cars, but EV's with current technology work best as one.

 

[Cory S]

That's part of the problem though, isn't it? We've had massive leaps in ICE technology, and all it was used for was making larger/heavier vehicles with decent mpg, and faster vehicles. Which is great, don't get me wrong. But economy cars continue to languish on lots because nobody wants to be seen in one despite the amazing efficiency you get now.

I still think EV's have a solid place going forward, even if they can't replace everything. An electric economy car (like the bolt) with about 150 miles of range is perfect for so many people. But the economics to produce something like that don't really work out, so all we're seeing is luxury oriented EV's and SUV ones that aren't really that great compared to their gas counterparts while costing a fortune. Being able to charge at home removes most of the negative aspects, but most middle and low income people don't have that option these days (let alone affording the cost of the vehicle in the first place).

Speaking of the Bolt, I captured this funny sandwich picture at my work today. As much as I appreciate the Bolt and how good it is for the price, what would you rather drive? This question is a big problem going forward with the EV "revolution". Americans despite economy cars, but EV's with current technology work best as one.

Agreed. Americans are greedy financial imbeciles in most cases. They blow ridiculous amounts of money on non necessities just to appear like a baller, yet complain when they’re broke on a $80,000 salary.

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