EcoBoost vs. Pre-Coyote GT?

[MrBillton]

almost 200 pound difference? here's the math on a base manual

Ecoboost: 3532 lbs, 52/48 = 1836.64
GT: 3705 lbs, 53/47 = 1963.65

That's about 127 lbs. You said ecoboost is a better "weekend canyon cruiser" which is nothing but a baseless, arbitrary, and meaningless statement. Is it fun to drive this way? I'm sure it is, BUT, it is not faster, funner, or inherently better at carving mountains than a Coyote, it is inferior at it. I'll also mention the Coyotes better brakes, which you don't account for.

Better is subjective. Take the BRZ example. Is it faster? Not a f*cking chance. But a lot of people love them because they are fun to drive in that environment.

There's a reason I called it a better *weekend* canyon carver. It's so light up front, compared to the GT (it's almost 200lbs off the nose of the car) that you can toss it around the twisties like nobody's business. It's a real hoot to drive this way, and in my opinion (and that of many other reviewers) it's the more fun, engaging car in this scenario.
.

If you can't understand why people would have a problem with your false assertions then do me a favor, next time you are at a Mustang meetup, start a conversation with some Coyote owners, at some point in the conversation tell them how your ecoboost is a "better weekend canyon carver" than their Coyotes, and see what type of reaction you get, then maybe you'll get it.

Don't lose faith. Maybe in the INTERNET Mustang guys... but in the real world, most Mustang folks I've met have been cool people.

I have to wonder if half these idiots online even HAVE Mustangs.

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[MrBillton]

A .4 difference in 0-60 times is very significant. So is taking off two hundred pounds off a car with a motor making the same (or in this case more) power. I'll bet this Focus is going to run somewhere around a 13 flat in the 1/4 from the factory.

Stock, there will be a solid difference in performance dude, of course a modded ecoboost would compete though. Maybe they'll announce a Mustang Ecoboost RS!!! That'd be pretty cool to see!

It's funny. The Focus ST is 3250lbs. The Focus RS, with AWD, will probably be a bit more. Maybe 3300lbs - 3350lbs. EB Mustang is 3500lbs. Focus RS will probably come in around 320HP (they are bumping up the motor a hair).

So figure with AWD, a bit more power, and lighter weight... it'll do 0-60 maybe .3-.4 seconds faster.

Now suddenly it's a "monster" whereas the Ecoboost Mustang is "slow."

Okay man. Still hittin' the pipe?

Edit: Still wouldn't mind having a Focus RS as a grocery getter, though. Sounds like it'll be a sweet car.

 

[EcoSwag1990]

almost 200 pound difference? here's the math on a base manual

Ecoboost: 3532 lbs, 52/48 = 1836.64
GT: 3705 lbs, 53/47 = 1963.65

That's about 127 lbs. You said ecoboost is a better "weekend canyon cruiser" which is nothing but a baseless, arbitrary, and meaningless statement. Is it fun to drive this way? I'm sure it is, BUT, it is not faster, funner, or inherently better at carving mountains than a Coyote, it is inferior at it. I'll also mention the Coyotes better brakes, which you don't account for..

Are you serious?? 127lbs off the nose of a car is going to make a VERY NOTICEABLE difference in cornering ability and feel. Also the Ecoboost performance package gets the EXACT same brakes as the regular GT

 

[15wile]

almost 200 pound difference? here's the math on a base manual

Ecoboost: 3532 lbs, 52/48 = 1836.64
GT: 3705 lbs, 53/47 = 1963.65

That's about 127 lbs. You said ecoboost is a better "weekend canyon cruiser" which is nothing but a baseless, arbitrary, and meaningless statement. Is it fun to drive this way? I'm sure it is, BUT, it is not faster, funner, or inherently better at carving mountains than a Coyote, it is inferior at it. I'll also mention the Coyotes better brakes, which you don't account for.

The Ecoboost automatic (3524) vs the GT automatic (3729) -- which is the comparison I'm making because that's what I drive -- is a bit different. And I heard the ratio is closer to 51/49. But even so, I'll concede it's more like 140 lbs. That's my bad - I spoke too quickly and will own the mistake. The original point, however, stands, with that revised figure. As for the brakes, it depends on how you option it. EB PP brakes are the same as GT base. Only GT PP brakes are better.

I'd love to have a GT PP, mind you, I've got nothing against the car. That's what I would have bought if I had the money.

But it's not a baseless statement to say it is a fun weekend canyon cruiser, and that its lighter, nimble nature can increase that fun factor relative to the heavier car. Other folks here have agreed with that statement, major reviewers have agreed with that statement, even The Smoking Tire guy, who was absolutely BRUTAL on the Ecoboost at the track (he was one step from calling it a piece of sh*t), conceded that it is in its element in the canyon cruising department and is a worthwhile buy for that purpose.

Like it or not, sir, cars are somewhat subjective. I can say "I think this car is more fun in scenario X" and there is no metric by which you can disprove the statement. Neither is there a metric by which I can prove the statement to you, excepting that you get behind the wheel of one and try it out. Honestly, I encourage you to do so. You may be surprised by the car.

If you can't understand why people would have a problem with your false assertions then do me a favor, next time you are at a Mustang meetup, start a conversation with some Coyote owners, at some point in the conversation tell them how your ecoboost is a "better weekend canyon carver" than their Coyotes, and see what type of reaction you get, then maybe you'll get it.

You know, I was actually discussing this with some folks at a meetup last night here in Tampa/St. Pete (the Pony Up Mustang Mondays event). I sometimes wonder if the hate folks have for the EB, the V6, etc... translates into real world meetups. The answer? It doesn't. Nobody seemed to give a sh*t. Furthermore, discussing the 4.6L motor, a lot of guys were in agreement that it was more or less equivalent with the EB. Different pros and cons, but very similar. We all agreed, myself included, that the EB has crap for sound, though.

Nobody had a problem with the notion that the EB is a lighter, fleet-footed handler with a serious fun factor, least of all the Coyote drivers. Most of them agreed with me. Not that they particular cared, either. The 5.0 guys have nothing to prove. They'll rip my car to shreds at a dragstrip, out-perform it in an autocross event, best it from a dig and blow it away from a roll.

Nonetheless, they conceded that the car has its perks. One guy mentioned that his daily driver having a supercharger probably wasn't the greatest idea for gas. Another said that his Shelby was something of a "porker" and he sometimes wished he had a lighter, nimbler car to drive around from time-to-time, very similar to the original point I was making. I doubt any of them would trade their monsters for mine, mind you, but even they could see the car has its perks. I don't see why you can't.

I guess I'm trying to understand why you're so emotionally invested in this. I read your replies, and I get the sense that you're almost angry at me -- kind of like if I were committing a religious blasphemy. Something akin to: "How dare he suggest that a V8 is not better in all things, all the time, for all people, in all places, doing all things." It's like you want to put the other guys in their place (beneath you and your 4.6) rather than have an honest discussion about the relative pros and cons of various Mustangs.

And not just one V8, mind you. Were we just talking about the 5.0, I would *almost* agree with you. But we aren't. This discussion began with the 4.6, and compared to that motor, there a number of definite, non-subjective metrics for scenarios in which an EB is better. Not all the time, not for all purposes or mod levels, but DEFINITELY some.

Do you like your 4.6 GT, sir? Truly? Or do you fear that some turbo-4 Mustang will come along and beat it?

Answer me honestly, do you think it is sacrilege that Ford made this motor and put it in a Mustang?

 

[15wile]

A .4 difference in 0-60 times is very significant. So is taking off two hundred pounds off a car with a motor making the same (or in this case more) power. I'll bet this Focus is going to run somewhere around a 13 flat in the 1/4 from the factory.

Stock, there will be a solid difference in performance dude, of course a modded ecoboost would compete though. Maybe they'll announce a Mustang Ecoboost RS!!! That'd be pretty cool to see!

I didn't say the difference was insignificant. I said it doesn't justify the difference in rhetoric, i.e. one is a "monster" and the other is "slow."

 

[Spartan]

Hell, if Spartan and I agree on this, MrBillton ought to just give up ;).

LOL.

This is one of the best view reviews of the EB Mustang from when the media finally got to drive them. At 7:37, they start the comparisons to the GT.

[ame]

 

[MrBillton]

But it's not a baseless statement to say it is a fun weekend canyon cruiser

I'll address your other questions/points in a moment...but let's be clear, this is not what you said. You said it is a "better" weekend canyon cruiser than the 5.0L, not a "fun" canyon cruiser.

Feel free to refer back to post #78 where you wrote that.

 

[15wile]

I'll address your other questions/points in a moment...but let's be clear, this is not what you said. You said it is a "better" weekend canyon cruiser than the 5.0L, not a "fun" canyon cruiser.

Feel free to refer back to post #78 where you wrote that.

I know what I wrote -- no need to be a dick. And I stand by the comment. In this role, I like the car better. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. See Spartan's video link for some more anecdotal backup on this -- it's not just me that's saying that.

 

[Tamadrummer88]

Im just gonna sit here and wait till either side eventually gives up.

Seriously, we cant have a friendly debate about the EB without some "holier than thou" GT guy coming in here and asserting his opinion as fact.

The same goes for the EB side too.

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[04SloSnake]

Im just gonna sit here and wait till either side eventually gives up.

Seriously, we cant have a friendly debate about the EB without some "holier than thou" GT guy coming in here and asserting his opinion as fact.

The same goes for the EB side too.

This is why we can't have nice things.

I'm on a 24 hour shift at work, I've got nothing but time. I've decided I'm just going to start pointing out when people say dumb things now though, it's gotten quite entertaining.

 

[EcoSwag1990]

I'm on a 24 hour shift at work, I've got nothing but time. I've decided I'm just going to start pointing out when people say dumb things now though, it's gotten quite entertaining.

Haha yea just about the only thing I have to do at work right now is pick internet fights

Edit: freedom comes in 19mins

 

[15wile]

Im just gonna sit here and wait till either side eventually gives up.

Seriously, we cant have a friendly debate about the EB without some "holier than thou" GT guy coming in here and asserting his opinion as fact.

The same goes for the EB side too.

This is why we can't have nice things.

This guy seems constitutionally incapable of friendly debate. Which is bizarre. I know a lot of GT owners who, while perfectly happy with their car and certainly wouldn't trade it for mine, can acknowledge that the EB has perks as well, even if fewer in number.

I mean, you do get what you pay for either way, in the end.

 

[MrBillton]

Also the base GT brakes are better than the base EB...

I have also made several concessions and positive statements about the EB...you have chosen to ignore them...here are some highlights of things I've said:

- The EB has better build materials
- The EB has a more refined and comfortable interior
- The EB has more amenities and creature comforts
- The EB was probably Ford's best move for the Mustang since the Retro styling
- The EB is massively important for penetrating the international market
- The EB is extremely important for the Mustang brand to take the next step for emissions
- The EB is a great package that delivers solid MPGs but still delivers solid performance, esp for the price!
- With a couple thousand spent in modifications in both cars, the EB is faster than the 4.6 GT

The ONLY point to which I had a problem with is saying from the perspective of a straight line performance it is equal to the 4.6, because it is not. After that, I took issue with you saying that the EB was a better weekend canyon carver than the Coyote GT, because it's not. Then I took issue with your mistaken estimation of weight difference, which you did while not telling the full picture of the GTs better calipers, rotors, and tires in equivalent packages.

I will never go out of my way to talk crap about an ecoboost, i respect every Mustang, what I don't respect is when owner's of a certain vehicle are boastful about it, and make blatantly false statements.

As I said, if you met with Coyote guys and tried to tell them your EB is a better canyon carver (or anything else) you aren't going to get a good response from anyone.

In response to your questions about me liking my 4.6...yes I do like it...do I wish it could make more power? absolutely...but I also don't try and compare it to a Coyote, Shelby, or anything that outperforms it. I like where it's at (it can beat a stock gen 5 SS), Yes, there are some ecoboosts out there that will destroy me, but at the end of the day, I know that my platform has a higher performance potential. But yeah, it wasn't enough for me, which is why I also have a Boss 302.

The Ecoboost automatic (3524) vs the GT automatic (3729) -- which is the comparison I'm making because that's what I drive -- is a bit different. And I heard the ratio is closer to 51/49. But even so, I'll concede it's more like 140 lbs. That's my bad - I spoke too quickly and will own the mistake. The original point, however, stands, with that revised figure. As for the brakes, it depends on how you option it. EB PP brakes are the same as GT base. Only GT PP brakes are better.

I'd love to have a GT PP, mind you, I've got nothing against the car. That's what I would have bought if I had the money.

But it's not a baseless statement to say it is a fun weekend canyon cruiser, and that its lighter, nimble nature can increase that fun factor relative to the heavier car. Other folks here have agreed with that statement, major reviewers have agreed with that statement, even The Smoking Tire guy, who was absolutely BRUTAL on the Ecoboost at the track (he was one step from calling it a piece of sh*t), conceded that it is in its element in the canyon cruising department and is a worthwhile buy for that purpose.

Like it or not, sir, cars are somewhat subjective. I can say "I think this car is more fun in scenario X" and there is no metric by which you can disprove the statement. Neither is there a metric by which I can prove the statement to you, excepting that you get behind the wheel of one and try it out. Honestly, I encourage you to do so. You may be surprised by the car.



You know, I was actually discussing this with some folks at a meetup last night here in Tampa/St. Pete (the Pony Up Mustang Mondays event). I sometimes wonder if the hate folks have for the EB, the V6, etc... translates into real world meetups. The answer? It doesn't. Nobody seemed to give a sh*t. Furthermore, discussing the 4.6L motor, a lot of guys were in agreement that it was more or less equivalent with the EB. Different pros and cons, but very similar. We all agreed, myself included, that the EB has crap for sound, though.

Nobody had a problem with the notion that the EB is a lighter, fleet-footed handler with a serious fun factor, least of all the Coyote drivers. Most of them agreed with me. Not that they particular cared, either. The 5.0 guys have nothing to prove. They'll rip my car to shreds at a dragstrip, out-perform it in an autocross event, best it from a dig and blow it away from a roll.

Nonetheless, they conceded that the car has its perks. One guy mentioned that his daily driver having a supercharger probably wasn't the greatest idea for gas. Another said that his Shelby was something of a "porker" and he sometimes wished he had a lighter, nimbler car to drive around from time-to-time, very similar to the original point I was making. I doubt any of them would trade their monsters for mine, mind you, but even they could see the car has its perks. I don't see why you can't.

I guess I'm trying to understand why you're so emotionally invested in this. I read your replies, and I get the sense that you're almost angry at me -- kind of like if I were committing a religious blasphemy. Something akin to: "How dare he suggest that a V8 is not better in all things, all the time, for all people, in all places, doing all things." It's like you want to put the other guys in their place (beneath you and your 4.6) rather than have an honest discussion about the relative pros and cons of various Mustangs.

And not just one V8, mind you. Were we just talking about the 5.0, I would *almost* agree with you. But we aren't. This discussion began with the 4.6, and compared to that motor, there a number of definite, non-subjective metrics for scenarios in which an EB is better. Not all the time, not for all purposes or mod levels, but DEFINITELY some.

Do you like your 4.6 GT, sir? Truly? Or do you fear that some turbo-4 Mustang will come along and beat it?

Answer me honestly, do you think it is sacrilege that Ford made this motor and put it in a Mustang?

 

[Spartan]

I know what I wrote -- no need to be a dick. And I stand by the comment. In this role, I like the car better. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that. See Spartan's video link for some more anecdotal backup on this -- it's not just me that's saying that.

If I can find my old post (you can only go back so many), I actually complied all the positives from the EB reviews of all the various articles that were posted I'll re-post it in here.

The standard gripes from most of the reviews (and I read them all) were the standard ones. Engine sound, some minor turbo lagg, and needed to be a tad lighter but there were tons of positives for the EB.

 

[EcoSwag1990]

Also the base GT brakes are better than the base EB...

And the base 2015 mustang GT brakes/ Ecoboost performance package brakes are the same size as the 2014 track pack brakes ;)

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