E85 vs 93 Wengerd Northside Indianapolis

[ZXMustang]

You can datalog with TDN. He should already have a channel list under your account you can use.

And between 93 to E85, we usually add 6-8* of timing and thats SUBSTANTIAL. Its a night and day difference and you should notice it for sure.

Also VCT cam angles can be made more aggressive with E85 to take advantage of its knock resistance. Just keep on him, and make sure you send in a few driving and WOT logs he can look at. DW is TOP TIER tuner. You will get what you paid for, and then some.

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[sdskinner73]

Do this on both 93 and e and post both logs here

I don’t have the cord to connect to my laptop for that part:/

 

[sdskinner73]

You can datalog with TDN. He should already have a channel list under your account you can use.

And between 93 to E85, we usually add 6-8* of timing and thats SUBSTANTIAL. Its a night and day difference and you should notice it for sure.

Also VCT cam angles can be made more aggressive with E85 to take advantage of its knock resistance. Just keep on him, and make sure you send in a few driving and WOT logs he can look at. DW is TOP TIER tuner. You will get what you paid for, and then some.

Absolutely. I don’t think he did anything wrong, I suspect the fuel quality sucks. He’s been great, absolutely no complaint about him at all. Just trying to gain some understanding and hoped someone near me has tried the same stations. Car scene here is large enough, someone has likely tested or ran into same thing.

 

[ZXMustang]

My plan was to do another datalog and send back. I suspect the speedway ethanol is lower quality, and that is what I used to log. Only because it’s literally next to my house. If he sees the same results, I will test it and see if there’s anything noticeable. I tried to ask around, nobody has tested those two I use.

Also to be completely honest, about E60+ is really all you need to get all the spark that "E" can bring. The reason everyone goes full E85 is just ease of use. No blending, just pump and go. But in reality, anything E60+ will get you to the peak timing you can run.

We see this on mopars and LT GM cars as well. And in the GM cars, they dont have PI fuel systems, so blending to e50/60 is about the max you can do without a tremendous amount of money for a PI fuel system added. So it works out for that platform.

For the gen3 coyote, you have both PI and DI systems able to be blended to add fuel volume output. That allows us to run full 9.8 stoich E85. Which has a big fuel volume demand. But you dont need that level of octane to reach the 32 or so degrees of total advance the coyote likes and can handle. Past that you wont see KR, but you will be rattling the rotating assembly for no reason and making less power.

Making sure you are getting high quality E, meaning high E content, really is for fueling accuracy. Once you are dialed in on the maf, then stoich point matters if you are to light on E or heavy. Then your car could be correcting close to the edge of what its capable of if you are set for 9.8 stoich for E85 but only using E60 pump. At that point, thats a stoich change up to probably 10.30/10.40. That corrects fueling for the lower E content and you're good.

Sorry, rabbit hole achieved.

 

[sdskinner73]

Also to be completely honest, about E60+ is really all you need to get all the spark that "E" can bring. The reason everyone goes full E85 is just ease of use. No blending, just pump and go. But in reality, anything E60+ will get you to the peak timing you can run.

We see this on mopars and LT GM cars as well. And in the GM cars, they dont have PI fuel systems, so blending to e50/60 is about the max you can do without a tremendous amount of money for a PI fuel system added. So it works out for that platform.

For the gen3 coyote, you have both PI and DI systems able to be blended to add fuel volume output. That allows us to run full 9.8 stoich E85. Which has a big fuel volume demand. But you dont need that level of octane to reach the 32 or so degrees of total advance the coyote likes and can handle. Past that you wont see KR, but you will be rattling the rotating assembly for no reason and making less power.

Making sure you are getting high quality E, meaning high E content, really is for fueling accuracy. Once you are dialed in on the maf, then stoich point matters if you are to light on E or heavy. Then your car could be correcting close to the edge of what its capable of if you are set for 9.8 stoich for E85 but only using E60 pump. At that point, thats a stoich change up to probably 10.30/10.40. That corrects fueling for the lower E content and you're good.

Sorry, rabbit hole achieved.

Appreciate it, these are the rabbit holes I want lol I know close to nothing about tuning. I can bottom line explain e95 vs 93 to someone, but that’s where it ends for me. I will send more datalogs this week/next and see what he says. Also getting new tires any day, so that will help as well. All seasons aren’t doing it anymore under about 45-50mph.

 

[ZXMustang]

Appreciate it, these are the rabbit holes I want lol I know close to nothing about tuning. I can bottom line explain e95 vs 93 to someone, but that’s where it ends for me. I will send more datalogs this week/next and see what he says. Also getting new tires any day, so that will help as well. All seasons aren’t doing it anymore under about 45-50mph.

For sure. Just follow his direction and you will get sorted. You should be ripping it up with E85 compared to 93.

 

[sdskinner73]

For sure. Just follow his direction and you will get sorted. You should be ripping it up with E85 compared to 93.

Let’s say the fuel quality is the issue. What are my options then? Find a better source? I have 3 by me between home and work. One is a meijer that consistently tests at 51%, so nobody uses it. My only two realistic options are the ones I have been using.

 

[ZXMustang]

Let’s say the fuel quality is the issue. What are my options then? Find a better source? I have 3 by me between home and work. One is a meijer that consistently tests at 51%, so nobody uses it. My only two realistic options are the ones I have been using.

If thats the problem, then you could add a can of octanium by VP or boostane. I wouldnt normally recommend that but its an option to push up the octane. That wont help with fueling issues if you are way above your stoich point depending on what he set it to.

You really just need to log and send it to DW. Have him see what you are getting for spark and see if you are running into any knock or if you have cats still and are going into cat enrichment. Which is entirely possible.

Personally I leave COT on for all cars with cats, but I take the max COT enrichment up from .70 to.78. Thats a lot less enrichment that will kill power. Plus I push the thresholds up 100f which helps lessen the effects of COT unless its completely needed.

I cant speak for DW and what he does in his tunes, but this is all basic stuff that just about any tuner would/should do.

 

[sdskinner73]

If thats the problem, then you could add a can of octanium by VP or boostane. I wouldnt normally recommend that but its an option to push up the octane. That wont help with fueling issues if you are way above your stoich point depending on what we set it to.

You really just need to log and send it to DW. Have him see what you are getting for spark and see if you are running into any knock or if you have cats still and are going into cat enrichment. Which is entirely possible.

Personally I leave COT on for all cars with cats, but I take the max COT enrichment up from .70 to.78. Thats a lot less enrichment that will kill power. Plus I push the thresholds up 100f which helps lessen the effects of COT unless its completely needed.

I cant speak for DW and what he does in his tunes, but this is all basic stuff that just about any tuner would/should do.

Thanks, I will do that. I do have cats still. No need to remove them at the moment, so I haven’t. I should have an answer next week on all this.

 

[robvas]

I don’t have the cord to connect to my laptop for that part:/

Buy one

 

[DougS550]

Hey all. Recently went with Wengerd tune. I bought both 93 and E85. Loved the 93 tune. The E85 just doesn’t seem to be anything more as far as torque comparatively. I emailed back and forth with Wengerd to gain a better understanding. He said they have seen some cases where the 93 is better quality than the E85 and I don’t need to test it. A few friends use E85 and they recommended to stick with Casey’s. I go to Casey’s in Lebanon typically, since it’s close to my job. Wondering if anyone else in the area has had similar instances or actually tested the E around here. In no way am I blaming the tuner, just trying to decide if I should stick with the 93 tune instead. I do daily it, but with Casey’s next to work, it’s not really a problem. I’ve also used the speedway in Westfield if I need to for e85. Overall, I expected more out of the ethanol tune.

Speedway 116street and Allisone ville is has tested by my friend and myself to never be lower than 83

 

[5.0_Lojos]

Hey all. Recently went with Wengerd tune. I bought both 93 and E85. Loved the 93 tune. The E85 just doesn’t seem to be anything more as far as torque comparatively. I emailed back and forth with Wengerd to gain a better understanding. He said they have seen some cases where the 93 is better quality than the E85 and I don’t need to test it. A few friends use E85 and they recommended to stick with Casey’s. I go to Casey’s in Lebanon typically, since it’s close to my job. Wondering if anyone else in the area has had similar instances or actually tested the E around here. In no way am I blaming the tuner, just trying to decide if I should stick with the 93 tune instead. I do daily it, but with Casey’s next to work, it’s not really a problem. I’ve also used the speedway in Westfield if I need to for e85. Overall, I expected more out of the ethanol tune.

Are you boosted? If not I dont think the diff will be much but if Boosted its a totally diff car.

 

[The Watchman]

I’m located about 90 mins straight north of Indy. We have amazing 93 and e85 here.

If you can find a McClure station near you they guarantee their e85 to be 105 octane and it says so right on the pump

 

[John S]

Plenty of Speedway and Shell stations in metro Detroit sell E85 and any high volume station should test clear with high ethanol content. I have a Wengerd 93 and E85 tune and my butt dyno notices the improvement on E85 so I'll put up with 10 MPG.

 

[sdskinner73]

Are you boosted? If not I dont think the diff will be much but if Boosted its a totally diff car.

I’m N/A. The problem is that the E85 closer to stock. It’s not a real improvement, besides the trans not jerking on downshifts. I suspect it’s fuel quality. I ordered testing tubes. Will test the two places I would use. Also datalog. And see if I can upload that here for those who asked.

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