E50 tune?

[Jjmoberg]

My pumps also say 51-83%. I tested it for a year at 3 different stations and the average it would be at was 75%. Ran an e85 tune for years with no issue. I would test it at the pump. You never know, it could be 80%. Which is awesome. Most e85 isn't actually 85%.

That point is well taken. Maybe i need to buy a tester and just test a few times over the winter and into the spring and summer. Then id have the tester to use when i go to whatever tune i end up with.

Do i want to be the crazy guy testing E85 when i dont even actually pump and into a vehicle? LOL

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[AWESOMO 4000]

That point is well taken. Maybe i need to buy a tester and just test a few times over the winter and into the spring and summer. Then id have the tester to use when i go to whatever tune i end up with.

Do i want to be the crazy guy testing E85 when i dont even actually pump and into a vehicle? LOL

Just get a Flex Tune and call it a day. No need to reinvent the wheel. Ford's logic has worked fine for 13yrs.

 

[Jjmoberg]

Flex tune with an actual sensor, or user adjustable ethanol and you test your fuel is the only way to do it without compromise. Lund are the only ones currently offering this. They have done 100s of user adjustable flex tunes. The wideband oem flex is flakey unless setup well, I don't recommend it.

I like the idea of the user adjustable flex tune. I am leaning to getting the Fuel It bluetooth ethanol sensor and having Lund give me a proper flex tune. Assuming they will take the time to dial in my MAF tables, etc first. Would be awesome to dial up 65% one tank and 72% the next tank, etc and know the car is running as well as it can for whats in the tank.

Can lund do the multi tune and have a slot for 91, a slot for 93, and a slot for flex? I really only want flex for when i am running E. If i run 91 E0 for the winter id rather just load a 91 tune.

 

[mejohn50]

Can lund do the multi tune and have a slot for 91, a slot for 93, and a slot for flex? I really only want flex for when i am running E. If i run 91 E0 for the winter id rather just load a 91 tune.

It doesn’t work quite like that.

If using the PCMTEC flex fuel (either user selected ethanol or sensor-based) the whole tune is a flex fuel tune, not the individual tune slots. You’d then use the tune slots for other things if you wanted. So you’d have to have a flex fuel/multi-tune file and then a 91 octane file.

But it doesn’t need to be like that if using the PCMTEC logic. Just dial in (or let the sensor control) your ethanol content and then run it. That’s it. No need to swap tunes or anything. You can do it all in one file.

You could theoretically have slots for 91, 93, and E85 but then you wouldn’t have flex fuel.

 

[engineermike]

…Would be awesome to dial up 65% one tank and 72% the next tank, etc and know the car is running as well as it can for whats in the tank.

That’s really splitting hairs, especially NA. You can get full timing with e30 give or take. Even supercharged on a gen3 you only need maybe e50 to get full timing.

 

[Jjmoberg]

It doesn’t work quite like that.

If using the PCMTEC flex fuel (either user selected ethanol or sensor-based) the whole tune is a flex fuel tune, not the individual tune slots. You’d then use the tune slots for other things if you wanted. So you’d have to have a flex fuel/multi-tune file and then a 91 octane file.

But it doesn’t need to be like that if using the PCMTEC logic. Just dial in (or let the sensor control) your ethanol content and then run it. That’s it. No need to swap tunes or anything. You can do it all in one file.

You could theoretically have slots for 91, 93, and E85 but then you wouldn’t have flex fuel.

I see. That makes sense. I think they will want to dial in with a gas tune first anyway. So i will likely do a flex/multi tune with user selectable E content and a 91 for winter.
I know the Fuel It kit has a 0-5v output. Certainly if that can be wired in and PCMtec accept that input, I could do it depending on difficulty level.

 

[mejohn50]

I see. That makes sense. I think they will want to dial in with a gas tune first anyway. So i will likely do a flex/multi tune with user selectable E content and a 91 for winter.
I know the Fuel It kit has a 0-5v output. Certainly if that can be wired in and PCMtec accept that input, I could do it depending on difficulty level.

The PCMTEC sensor-based flex fuel logic requires a specific CAN bus converter to add the ethanol sensor data to the PCM. They specify the Zeitronix ECA-2 CAN. That box takes the ethanol sensor signal and converts it to the correct signal that the PCMTEC custom OS with flex fuel enabled is looking for. You’re basically adding another module to the CAN bus and the PCMTEC custom OS is looking for this module if the sensor-based flex fuel is enabled.

 

[Jjmoberg]

That’s really splitting hairs, especially NA. You can get full timing with e30 give or take. Even supercharged on a gen3 you only need maybe e50 to get full timing.

Well I get that to a certain degree, but the whole E85/flex thing is very convoluted with all sorts of different info and opinions. Certainly it seems the Ford logic for flex sucks. And I really dont want to run flex to go from E to gas. Id rather have proper tunes for E and gas. But my original question when i posted this thread was E50 tune? So that question still remains. If i know all the pumps near me will test from 51-83% and I am NA why cant i just run an E85 tune if max timing is down at 30%? If an E85 tune isnt safe for 51-83% then my soft E50 or E70 or whatever question still remains. Lots of tuners dont do flex anymore. There must be a reason. What would be the point of the user selectable tunes at all if there is no difference NA from 30-85%??

There has to be a lot of guys like me that have flex fuel available locally and dont go back and forth from E to gas all the time. What are most of those guys running tune wise if they dont know if they are getting E 54 or E 79%? And is the answer to what are they doing and what is safest and most effective the same answer?

I dont tend to half ass things. Part of me would like to just buy the PCMtec stuff and do it myself. But i probably dont have time for that with my work and kid schedule. So short of doing it myself I am trying to do the most right thing with an outside tuner to be able to most effectively run E51-83%.

 

[Jjmoberg]

The PCMTEC sensor-based flex fuel logic requires a specific CAN bus converter to add the ethanol sensor data to the PCM. They specify the Zeitronix ECA-2 CAN. That box takes the ethanol sensor signal and converts it to the correct signal that the PCMTEC custom OS with flex fuel enabled is looking for. You’re basically adding another module to the CAN bus and the PCMTEC custom OS is looking for this module if the sensor-based flex fuel is enabled.

I think I will stick with the Fuel It kit and the user selectable. LOL

 

[mejohn50]

I think I will stick with the Fuel It kit and the user selectable. LOL

If that’s what’s works for you then that’s fine, but other than cost I don’t really see an incentive to do user selected ethanol over the sensor-based flex fuel.

Inside of the tune, both ways to select ethanol content are manipulating the same data. One way is just automated and one way you have to do it yourself, and remember to do it every tank of gas.

 

[Jjmoberg]

If that’s what’s works for you then that’s fine, but other than cost I don’t really see an incentive to do user selected ethanol over the sensor-based flex fuel.

Inside of the tune, both ways to select ethanol content are manipulating the same data. One way is just automated and one way you have to do it yourself, and remember to do it every tank of gas.

Depends on how easy that kit is to install i guess. The Fuel It kit for the 2018+ doesnt even require making a cut. Its plug and play at the firewall and the fuel rail. Would be cool if the Zeitronix box could take the input from the fuel it sensor. Its just a continental sensor.

 

[K4fxd]

For gen 3 find a tuner who uses PCMtec and understands the flex tables that are zeroed out. All the info is in the true flex thread.

 

[K4fxd]

Some of the confusion from that thread may be due to me working with Gen 2.

 

[Jjmoberg]

Some of the confusion from that thread may be due to me working with Gen 2.

i dont mean its confusing related to any one person. Especially not you. Its just interesting some will say just run a flex tune like its no big deal, and then someone will window a block and someone else will say you never should have been running that tune. Knowing the content between E30 and E 85 is either important or its not.

 

[Jjmoberg]

For gen 3 find a tuner who uses PCMtec and understands the flex tables that are zeroed out. All the info is in the true flex thread.

Other than the 3-5 people in that thread it doesnt seem like theres anyone but Lund doing it for guys like me.

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