Does The EcoBoost Need A Catch Can?

[UPRjoe]

Here are customer pictures of what are systems do on ecoboost trucks in under a 1,000 miles over the past few weeks and we have tons of kits out the doing this. Our systems speak for themselves.

http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/5...talled-upr-catch-can-pictures.html#post184015

Sponsored

 

[RubyRed15]

I'm going to be blunt: this is starting to sound like snake oil sales. Where can we see comprehensive , scientific proof that these systems actually work? Photos mean little. Why should we believe these things are "catching" oil and not actually just sucking it out of the crankcase, especially at the large quantities advertised?

 

[dragonacc]

I'm going to be blunt: this is starting to sound like snake oil sales. Where can we see comprehensive , scientific proof that these systems actually work? Photos mean little. Why should we believe these things are "catching" oil and not actually just sucking it out of the crankcase, especially at the large quantities advertised?

Look up carbon build up on google in regards to BMWs, Fords, etc. You'll find plenty of info out there showing all kinds of built up oil/carbon on the valves and in the intake manifolds. Where do you think that oil comes from? Hint - It's from the PCV system and that's what the catch cans are designed to prevent. No one is forcing you to buy anything so if you think it's garbage don't get one. I'll have one on mine though, I've done my own research.

 

[wireless]

^ and?
This doesn't prevent it, it likely prolongs it. Plus, these can cause issues if they fill up, get excess moisture, or if there is condensation inside of the catch can.

Catch cans were very common on the VW GTI (my last car) and people still had to do intake valve cleaning every 50k miles or so, or else there was a massive amount of buildup.

If this can somehow "prevent" the issue then I'm all down, but on my previous vehicles it hasn't really helped other than prevent some oil, but the issue still happens..

 

[dragonacc]

^ and?
This doesn't prevent it, it likely prolongs it. Plus, these can cause issues if they fill up, get excess moisture, or if there is condensation inside of the catch can.

Catch cans were very common on the VW GTI (my last car) and people still had to do intake valve cleaning every 50k miles or so, or else there was a massive amount of buildup.

If this can somehow "prevent" the issue then I'm all down, but on my previous vehicles it hasn't really helped other than prevent some oil, but the issue still happens..

And maybe you missed the long explanation by UPR about how their's filters better for this reason and that reason. Does it work? Sounds good in theory. And a lot of the F150 guys say it works. Time will tell, I guess.

Plus, if all it did was prolong the time period between necessary valve and intake cleaning wouldn't it still be worth it in the long run? Guess it depends on how long you plan to keep the car.

EDIT: I had a JLT can on my 11GT. It's not direct injection so no major carbon build up, but still keeps things cleaner and keeps the engine from burning oil for no reason.

 

[OVRKILL]

I'm going to be blunt: this is starting to sound like snake oil sales.

If you look at the design of the system, the things you're describing aren't entirely possible. The PCV outlet at the top of the valve covers and the amount of vacuum will be the same with a can installed. The amount of oil/spray it will suck from the lifters will be the same. The oil is going to be there either way, and the can just gives it a place to go.

My PCV system is still stock - I took the turbo inlet off the other day and there was already a bit of oil present after ~1300mi. The amount of blowby I've seen in the manifold of my v8.. wow.

 

[wireless]

And maybe you missed the long explanation by UPR about how their's filters better for this reason and that reason. Does it work? Sounds good in theory. And a lot of the F150 guys say it works. Time will tell, I guess.

Plus, if all it did was prolong the time period between necessary valve and intake cleaning wouldn't it still be worth it in the long run? Guess it depends on how long you plan to keep the car.

EDIT: I had a JLT can on my 11GT. It's not direct injection so no major carbon build up, but still keeps things cleaner and keeps the engine from burning oil for no reason.

I'm a skeptic simply because of the fact that it seems to be a snake oil.
I don't personally like catch cans due to the additional maintenance. I'm purely going based upon my experience on previous cars -- eg: owner goes 40k with a catch can, records results. Owner goes 40k without, same results.

I know it catches oil, and therefore it's working -- however, I don't think it's a magical cure all.
I would like a catch can very much -- but we'll see if these have the same problems. *shrug* lol

 

[UPRjoe]

Just a heads up.

If you look at the design of the system, the things you're describing aren't entirely possible. The PCV outlet at the top of the valve covers and the amount of vacuum will be the same with a can installed. The amount of oil/spray it will suck from the lifters will be the same. The oil is going to be there either way, and the can just gives it a place to go.

My PCV system is still stock - I took the turbo inlet off the other day and there was already a bit of oil present after ~1300mi. The amount of blowby I've seen in the manifold of my v8.. wow.

The oil spray is there because the system under boost forces oil to come out both side because their is not way for the system to properly evacuate during WOT and is common. That is the reason for the Wide Open Throttle line to eliminate the side of the system that is supposed to be the in from blowing boost out when it loses vacuum under WOT.

So the theory and function you describe is accurate and normal without giving the PCV system a way to maintain vacuum and not boost under WOT blasts. That is the reason for the Check Valve on the TB to stop boost from entering and has a strong vacuum source during WOT.

I know it's a bit hard to grasp, but this is what we have learned and have extensive experience with Ford Tech's and Engineer's that have also installed and use our system and have seen how good the results are with the UPR Dual Valve Kit.

Snake Oil is something I thought as well when I was first dealing with this type of system a few years back. So I am always here to share the same reservations and I called ( BS ) also and did not think about anything other than sales pitch or profit.

Then I started developing the systems and also found these systems to be far less profitable and than our single catch can system with much more basic internal function. I will not try to pitch some ridiculous notions only things that we experience.

We might offer a clean side separator to for the connection on the valve cover, but currently the system keeps tripping the vacuum pressure sensor on the line and has not showed any buildup with the WOT system installed.

Either way I will always steer our products into the best functioning and never allow the profit to sway our mission. Which is today's business is crazy but I want to upfront and earn everyone's trust.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

UPR has both the 2015 Ecoboost and the 2015 GT so our testing has been very good. The GT has collected about 2.5oz-3oz in the first 2000+ miles or so with my Fiancee driving it normal and not my son or daughter with the led feet. LOL

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last thing to add is if you let a catch can overfill the only thing it will do is the same as not having one. It won't create any other problem as we have tried it on a 5.0L F150 and a few mustangs. So other than the fact a catch can has to be monitored. It's no different than changing the oil and taking a minute to service your catch can. But that would be like brushing your teeth and not flossing, YUK.

 

[UPRjoe]

The Single Valve catch have no WOT line.

Why should we believe these things are "catching" oil and not actually just sucking it out of the crankcase, especially at the large quantities advertised?

The data and logic behind it is the fact that the UPR Single Valve Catch Can does not have any additional Vacuum or WOT line and it catches a ton of 2.5oz to 4oz+ depending on the weather and heat the vehicle is subjected to.

Many of the catch cans on the ecoboost started out without WOT lines and caught an enormous amount of oil because they are boosted and force the oil out of the crankcase. Where a traditional 5.0 is not and they push a lot of oil
through the PCV.

Either way the thought of being lumped in with some of the seedy profiteers trying to exploit unsuspecting enthusiasts by selling fake or doctored cures is
nothing I will allow our reputation to get mixed up with.

What you give, you will eventually receive....I have a great family and no time for nonsense so I always build a strong foundation. This type of business would erode it over time. I'm not here to let anyone down.

 

[JJ@WMS]

Great info Joe. Good job explaining the correct way to get this job done.

Just cutting into a breather line and slapping in a cup with a cap is obviously not going to get the job done.

I look forward to what UPR brings to market and will for sure run one on our EB car.

JJ

 

[jholtz]

We have done a lot of testing in just about every condition you can think of.

This is of the Mustang Ecoboost not the Focus Ecoboost so everyone can better understand what the system looks and functions.

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the routing diagram. I'm not clear on installation though. Does the "out" side require a plate to be removed from the engine during installation? How about some installation instructions for clarity of the difficulty of installation?

Thanks and Happy New Year!

Jim

 

[RubyRed15]

How much oil does the EB consume between oil changes without a catch can installed?

 

[UPRjoe]

The PCV on the Ecoboost will allow a few oz. or more on average under normal operating conditions and for led foots it can consume 4oz.-5oz. or more and that is way too much ? This information was collected from testing multiple ecoboost mustangs.

Joe

 

[Mishimoto]

I'm going to be blunt: this is starting to sound like snake oil sales. Where can we see comprehensive , scientific proof that these systems actually work? Photos mean little. Why should we believe these things are "catching" oil and not actually just sucking it out of the crankcase, especially at the large quantities advertised?

I can see how this might be construed as a sales pitch to get you on-board with our product. Our role in this thread is to show the catch can system we are developing and to post our results from actual road testing. It is entirely up to you to determine if you need/want one of these systems, as well as decide what particular system you would prefer.

Hopefully we are not being too overbearing by posting our results here, although it appears other vendors are chiming in with rather confusing claims/information.

Keep an eye on our posts for more testing data on the way.

Look up carbon build up on google in regards to BMWs, Fords, etc. You'll find plenty of info out there showing all kinds of built up oil/carbon on the valves and in the intake manifolds. Where do you think that oil comes from? Hint - It's from the PCV system and that's what the catch cans are designed to prevent. No one is forcing you to buy anything so if you think it's garbage don't get one. I'll have one on mine though, I've done my own research.

Very true! Factory PCV systems are in place to properly evacuate byproduct and retain optimal pressure within the crankcase. The most environmentally friendly and easily serviced way to go about this is to introduce this back into the intake tract to be burned in the combustion chamber. Adding a catch can will mean another item to service, however you will also be capturing all of the oil that would end up coating your intake system and valves.

The data and logic behind it is the fact that the UPR Single Valve Catch Can does not have any additional Vacuum or WOT line and it catches a ton of 2.5oz to 4oz+ depending on the weather and heat the vehicle is subjected to.

Many of the catch cans on the ecoboost started out without WOT lines and caught an enormous amount of oil because they are boosted and force the oil out of the crankcase. Where a traditional 5.0 is not and they push a lot of oil
through the PCV.

Either way the thought of being lumped in with some of the seedy profiteers trying to exploit unsuspecting enthusiasts by selling fake or doctored cures is
nothing I will allow our reputation to get mixed up with.

What you give, you will eventually receive....I have a great family and no time for nonsense so I always build a strong foundation. This type of business would erode it over time. I'm not here to let anyone down.

We are in no way a "seedy profiteer". Our role through the entirety of this thread has been to show what our engineering team is designing and post our test results to inform the enthusiast base here. Please refrain from comments such as this. We are very open to any other products on the market, it provides the consumer with options so they can decide which fits their needs the best. If you feel your product is superior, great, however please do not continue to cut down our design with unsupported claims that it will not function. This is an enthusiast board, but lets try to keep this environment friendly and professional.

How much oil does the EB consume between oil changes without a catch can installed?

Quite a bit! Check out our PCV catch can after 300 miles of road use and a handful of dyno pulls.

This can (PCV side) has quite a bit of fluid, which appears to be a mix of both fuel and oil. The valve-cover breather can was fairly dry. We are continuing our testing to see if any additional accumulation builds up in either can.

Thanks!

 

[Mishimoto]

Check out how our prototype lines were constructed!

Mishimoto 2015+ Ford Mustang 2.3L EcoBoost Direct-Fit Baffled Oil Catch Can System, Part 3: Line Routing and Final Prototype

Mishimoto 2015 Mustang EB

Last time, we selected the mounting brackets for our dual can setup. As mentioned earlier in our thread, we would be performing real-world road testing to determine if both lines accumulate byproduct. Our next task was to develop and install some lines for testing.

Line Fabrication
First, we tackled the breather line, which ties in between the valve cover and the turbocharger inlet pipe. Our line routes from the breather port around the rear of the engine to the catch can. The return line follows a similar path back to the inlet pipe. You will notice we have retained the stock pressure sensor.

Breather line mockup

Breather line mockup

Breather line mockup

These lines even fit with the stock engine cover!

Breather line mockup

Breather line mockup

A few interesting things to note about the hoses. First, the tape securing our hoses together is not electrical tape. Rather, we are using silicone tape to wrap our mockup lines in place. The lines will be secure enough for testing and will retain their shape, allowing us to create a fixture for manufacturing these hoses on a large scale. Second, the brass fittings represent transitions in hose size. These will be replaced by a single piece of hose that gradually changes from one ID to a larger size.

Next, we needed to address the routing of the PCV line. Our can will splice into the stock line that connects to the PCV plate on the block, as well as to a port on the throttle body. First, the hoses are mounted to the can itself.

PCV line hose mockup

The lines lead under the intake manifold.

PCV line hose mockup

PCV line hose mockup

Final Prototype
We now had our full kit mocked into position. Check out a few shots of the final setup.

Full prototype kit installed

Full prototype kit installed

Full prototype kit installed

Now it was time to put some miles on our Mustang and see what kind of accumulation we could generate in each can. We would be fully testing this setup to ensure that both cans would be necessary for the EcoBoost. Check back with us next time for full details on the test results!

Thanks

Sponsored