Crankshaft snout snapped

[gimmie11s]

OP number 1 & 3 says he's a Vortech according to what I read. Beside the one turbo in this post, I haven't seen to many turbo cars break the snout.

Yeah I’ve read the whole thread... my comments were in reference to the Hellion car.

Sponsored

 

[Crackerjack17]

Wow, sorry to see that oloasunt. Reading through this thread, I see people posting how tight and hard it is to get the ati dampner on. I heated the ATI center section with a heat gun, not even that hot and it went on like butter. Pull it off the same way. If you don't heat it, then yeah it's a bitch.

 

[Jay-rod427]

Wow, sorry to see that oloasunt. Reading through this thread, I see people posting how tight and hard it is to get the ati dampner on. I heated the ATI center section with a heat gun, not even that hot and it went on like butter. Pull it off the same way. If you don't heat it, then yeah it's a bitch.

Heating is a bandaid begging for disaster. It needs to be precision measured along with the crank snout for proper interference fit as recommended by ati. .0008-.0012”. Yes that’s ten thousandths. Too tight can lead to crushing pressure on the crank causing failure, too loose and it can’t do its job properly. Precision measuring, and precision honing if needed.

Just put mine on last week. .0010” smaller balancer hub than the crank. Perfect interference fit. Went on piece of cake with proper installer. Also people who lazily just use a bolt to drive it on are begging for disaster. Also verified it’s proper seat depth by measuring crank end to sprocket face, and comparing to thickness of hub.

 

[pro 5.0]

Typical balancer hub fit is .001 there is nothing wrong with heating up the hub to aid install, as with anything the most important thing is that the hub is bottomed out and the bolt is torqued and use red Loctite to secure it.

 

[tsloms]

Heating is a bandaid begging for disaster. It needs to be precision measured along with the crank snout for proper interference fit as recommended by ati. .0008-.0012”. Yes that’s ten thousandths. Too tight can lead to crushing pressure on the crank causing failure, too loose and it can’t do its job properly. Precision measuring, and precision honing if needed.

Just put mine on last week. .0010” smaller balancer hub than the crank. Perfect interference fit. Went on piece of cake with proper installer. Also people who lazily just use a bolt to drive it on are begging for disaster. Also verified it’s proper seat depth by measuring crank end to sprocket face, and comparing to thickness of hub.

I absolutely agree with you that it would be best to measure and verify the sizing first. We know for sure that Ford has a spec on their cranks and I’m sure ATI makes their balancers to fit properly.
Most industrial bearings are an interference fit as the balancer is and are installed typically by use of an inductive heater to expand the bearing and allow it to slide on easily. This surely is not a band aid fix.
That being said I forced mine on at room temperature with a home made installation stud and measured to verify the installation. This is necessary because it can seem to pull on very hard without heat. This is normal!

Olaosunt if you didn’t have shit luck you wouldn’t have any at all. I’m so sorry for your pain and hope you come out of this better. Best of luck sir!

 

[Jay-rod427]

I absolutely agree with you that it would be best to measure and verify the sizing first. We know for sure that Ford has a spec on their cranks and I’m sure ATI makes their balancers to fit properly.
Most industrial bearings are an interference fit as the balancer is and are installed typically by use of an inductive heater to expand the bearing and allow it to slide on easily. This surely is not a band aid fix.
That being said I forced mine on at room temperature with a home made installation stud and measured to verify the installation. This is necessary because it can seem to pull on very hard without heat. This is normal!

Olaosunt if you didn’t have shit luck you wouldn’t have any at all. I’m so sorry for your pain and hope you come out of this better. Best of luck sir!

Agreed heat is used when needed, but at proper fit this application shouldn’t need it. Ati makes it small so it can cover the low end of factory tolerances and then honed to fit the high end. If you have a high tolerance end crank and force it on with heat it could be a mess.

 

[Brostang]

Does ATI spec a range for interference fit? Sounds like more speculation about proper fit and install error, unless someonce can provide oem tolerances. I doubt most installers will mic both the snout od and balancer id to verify "proper fit" if that is even the probelm.

Also, has anyone considered installing the bolt with a locking washer like a Nord-Lock? No firsthand experience using them, but the theory says preload would increase before allowing a fastener to turn due to the wedge angle. Likely, vibration would not be able to overcome the required preload increase to cause backing out

 

[Jay-rod427]

Does ATI spec a range for interference fit? Sounds like more speculation about proper fit and install error, unless someonce can provide oem tolerances. I doubt most installers will mic both the snout od and balancer id to verify "proper fit" if that is even the probelm.

Also, has anyone considered installing the bolt with a locking washer like a Nord-Lock? No firsthand experience using them, but the theory says preload would increase before allowing a fastener to turn due to the wedge angle. Likely, vibration would not be able to overcome the required preload increase to cause backing out

Yes ati says .0008-.0012 for a 1.25” crank diameter.

 

[VTR16]

 

[lxh89]

The crank support setup is bad ass! Any links to MFP Australia? I couldn't find anything online except their facebook page.

 

[VTR16]

That’s all I saw as well.

 

[olaosunt]

So how do you get get one . Might as well try it if I can get my hands one one .
I was doing some research into the head lifting issues on the coyote and especially blocks cracking in the valley around the knock sensor bosses . It’s a fairy common issue and one of the earlier non sleeved blocks in my KB car developed this . MMR sells a brace but it would not work with KB manifold .My Hellion car has one but of course it was not going to save my crank . Lol
L&M says the answer is 11 mm to 12 mm head bolt conversion .
Reading through it looks like “ the stress is transmitted back to the crank where it originates “ which I would assume increases the risk of snapping that .
It just seems like once you find and fix one weak link , the system just finds the next one .
https://www.lmengines.com/11mm-to-12-mm-head-bolts-thread-conversion.html

 

[VTR16]

Alex at Lund tunes my car so I will reach out to him and see if I can find out some details on pricing and availability.
I wonder if this crank support, sleeves, water jacket supports and the 12mm head bolt conversion would alleviate all the issues haha

 

[olaosunt]

LOL
Makes me just want give it all up ...or as Madcow suggested use the 4.6/ 5.4 blocks if you want to make big power reliably

 

[VTR16]

Maybe throw a forged block on top of all of that as well. Just to be safe haha

Sponsored