Completely new to Ford

[cactus_kid]

The GT350 is a fantastic touring car. In the 6 mos I had my '20 HEP, it made the trip from Dallas,TX to Key West, FL. And to Denver, CO. Twice to the Shelby Museum in Las Vegas, including a side trip to Death Valley. Myself, son and, 10yr old granddaughter. She had plenty of room in the back seat. Plenty of luggage space inc a cooler .............. "Buy It!" You won't be sorry.

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[Adamone92]

Again I suggest that you reread your post whereby you suggested that your Camaro SS 1LE will stay with an R model on a road course or did I read your post wrong again as well!

As myself and many other members have indicated the only thing that is funny is your continued denial of facts such as your SS 1LE being as fast as a GT350R on a road course and how the GT350 is so over priced.

Why do you think that the Camaro model continues to lag behind the GT350/R year after year in sales and that is because the GT350/R is that good and people are willing to pay with it is worth whereas if someone wants a lesser car they can revert to the much cheaper priced Camaro which you have chosen to do.

BTW, I still suggest that you need to list your Camaro SS 1LE as your present car of ownership profile since you sold your 2018 Mustang GT or is there a reason for not changing that pertinent information while you are on a Mustang forum?

i said gt350/r. meaning its in the area of both. which it is. so you did somewhat misread or misunderstand the post.

i said the gt350 was overpriced in MY OPINION. maybe not in yours, and thats fine. why are we still arguing these points ive stated otherwise?

if im not mistaken, the gt350r hasnt sold as many as the zl1 or zle. mustangs as a whole outsell the camaro though by a large margin, which is again..a completely different topic and discussion board but you keep changing the argument to new things. Show me where the gt350 out performs the zl1 1le or zl1 on a track. As a DD/track car...maybe, depends on the person. "lesser car" how exactly? Again, this argument originated from YOUR out of place notion that i was comparing a GT to a gt350 and i still dont understand why this topic is still even going. i didnt get the camaro due to the price, although saving money is always nice. It felt better to me and i enjoy the interior more than the gt350. Honestly the first time i test drove the 2ss 1le i wasnt even seriously considering selling my gt. Im eager for the mach 1 to come out to see what it brings to the table.

why does it bother you so much for my profile to not be updated yet? It started off as an oversight that i forgot to change, but now ill keep it just because it bothers you so much. You do realize how many people on here do not currently or never have owned a mustang...right? it's not like i hide that i sold my gt and got a camaro, ive said it many times. so again...i dont understand your point or relevance to any of this.

you're getting exhausting to keep saying the same things over and over to.

 

[Adamone92]

One of the things you will likely never get from the Camaro or challenger is an engine that can rev to 8k safely.

Winding out the gears vs hitting the rev limiter at 6200. The technology in the coyote light years ahead of the Camaro and the proof of that the Camaro needs 20% more displacement to get similar power. Then there is the pushrod. That tells it all.

i mostly agree with that. I probably do prefer the voodoo and the coyote over the LT1 engine. Especially the coyote with boost. The LT1 simply performs better NA and that has been shown. The steeda car wouldnt even be top 10 if it were a camaro. Both are great engines IMO. But like i said, i probably do give the edge to ford on this part.

(camaro can go above 6200 btw)..and the displacement vs power vs size vs power is a whole different argument and discussion board.

that said, OP seems to want something that feels more powerful than his scatpack on the street. Im not sure a gt or gt350 or even camaro will do that, which is why i recommended a hellcat. it all comes down to his preferences really.

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

One of the things you will likely never get from the Camaro or challenger is an engine that can rev to 8k safely.

Winding out the gears vs hitting the rev limiter at 6200. The technology in the coyote light years ahead of the Camaro and the proof of that the Camaro needs 20% more displacement to get similar power. Then there is the pushrod. That tells it all.

You can make a LS engine rev pretty high, although it is definitely not stock. I think it is very interesting to be able to get a push rod that high. Not an engine expert but I remember seeing people talking about an old video comparing the Voodoo engine to the one in the SS Camaro. LS7 I think? But they both made power differently, as you could see from the Dyno Graphs.

There is a video I saw of some Camaro that had a LS7 that revved up to 8500 rpms I think it will be really cool to see the dyno of that and see how it makes power vs the Voodoo.

 

[GreenS550]

Definitely needs more displacement, though. I just got done visiting PBD in Florida and spoke with Will at Rare Fab. They have 1,500hp coyote using stock camshafts. That would and could Never happen with the LS.

 

[Adamone92]

You can make a LS engine rev pretty high, although it is definitely not stock. I think it is very interesting to be able to get a push rod that high. Not an engine expert but I remember seeing people talking about an old video comparing the Voodoo engine to the one in the SS Camaro. LS7 I think? But they both made power differently, as you could see from the Dyno Graphs.

There is a video I saw of some Camaro that had a LS7 that revved up to 8500 rpms I think it will be really cool to see the dyno of that and see how it makes power vs the Voodoo.

300HP by 1000 RPMS (i believe thats what the charts have shown) is pretty good for a factory car imo.

the LS engines are popular for a reason, and the LT is an improvement on them. Although not as easy to do a cam swap on.

 

[Adamone92]

Definitely needs more displacement, though. I just got done visiting PBD in Florida and spoke with Will at Rare Fab. They have 1,500hp coyote using stock camshafts. That would and could Never happen with the LS.

just as a note, the new camaros and corvettes havent used an LS for a few years now. its an LT which is overhauled and improved on the LS. on another note, there was a 10k engine build video of the LS3 vs a coyote and the LS won hands down on power and torque. It also gives points for peak power, area under the curve, and hp per cubic inch.

Here is the final results video. Although the whole series was an interesting watch for me.

 

[GreenS550]

just as a note, the new camaros and corvettes havent used an LS for a few years now. its an LT which is overhauled and improved on the LS. on another note, there was a 10k engine build video of the LS vs a coyote and the LS won hands down on power and torque.

Here is the final results video. Although the whole series was an interesting watch for me.

Wow and what was the HP per cubic inch?

 

[Adamone92]

Wow and what was the HP per cubic inch?

results are around the 8 minute mark i believe.

power per cubic inch:
LS3: 1.47HP/1.32TQ
coyote: 1.68HP/1.31TQ

nice numbers from both. The LT1 that is now used is an improvement over the LS3 but i have not seen a similar comparison video on it. the LS3 won overall by a large margin on their tests

they even make a little joke about how even fox body guys are throwing LS engines into their cars. So they must be doing something right.

edit: i actually just noticed this isnt even the build video i was talking about. let me see if i can find the other one too. i think this one was NA, the other is boosted. both good watches.



LS3 4.1 per cubic inch. 1784 peak hp and 1422 torque
Coyote 4.3. per cubic inch. Around 1307 peak hp and 903 torque

Both engines didnt survive if i recall correctly

 

[LV_CarGuy]

Hello Joe and welcome to the forum. First things first. It's GT350.

As you are new to Ford you need some history.
https://www.cjponyparts.com/resources/history-shelby-mustang

A Shelby is not just a car, it's a world unto itself. Once your immersed in it, you may never come out. You really need to test drive one. Only then will you understand what I'm saying.

Unfortunately I am no longer physically able to drive a stick but if I could.............

Hi Joe,
I can confirm this opinion. Up until last year, I had never owned a Ford and was pretty much a German car owner (BMW M-Class to be specific). I got a GT350 and it has been one of the best cars I have ever owned. The six-speed manual and Flat Plane Crank cant be beat right now. I dont haul people in the back seat much, but never had an issue. I'm 5'11".

In my opinion, you wont be disappointed.

Good luck on your decision!

LV_CG

 

[lenFeb]

Hi Joe,
I can confirm this opinion. Up until last year, I had never owned a Ford and was pretty much a German car owner (BMW M-Class to be specific). I got a GT350 and it has been one of the best cars I have ever owned. The six-speed manual and Flat Plane Crank cant be beat right now. I dont haul people in the back seat much, but never had an issue. I'm 5'11".

In my opinion, you wont be disappointed.

Good luck on your decision!

LV_CG

Same as you, I'm BMW M car guy. Tested M2 in 2019 but numb steering hold me to pull the trigger. Decided to wait for 2021 M3 or M4. But when by chance went to test GT350, purchased the car on the impulse buy. Now that 2021 M3 and M4 released, I glad I didn't have to wait. IMO M cars are lost they identity right after last E92, which was my dream car. Interested to read your opinion/comparison between your M5 and GT350.

 

[LV_CarGuy]

Same as you, I'm BMW M car guy. Tested M2 in 2019 but numb steering hold me to pull the trigger. Decided to wait for 2021 M3 or M4. But when by chance went to test GT350, purchased the car on the impulse buy. Now that 2021 M3 and M4 released, I glad I didn't have to wait. IMO M cars are lost they identity right after last E92, which was my dream car. Interested to read your opinion/comparison between your M5 and GT350.

Thanks for sharing. Comparing the M5 to the GT350 really doesnt work, nor is it really fair. The M5 is a fat pig, but the performance is truly unreal (in a straight line or on curves) and the weight really doesnt make a difference. The M5 truly smokes the GT350 due to the AWD, especially in a straight line, but the GT350 smokes the M5 in "fun level" with that six-speed and on a track it is quite fun... If I want to go out and truly enjoy being "one with the car", its the GT350 hands down. If I want to enjoy some luxury while being able to fend off anything from a lambo to a GTR, that'd be the M-Class. Side Note: The FORD entertainment system is 10x better than the BMW which is mind-boggling considering the price of the M.

Regardless, they are BOTH great cars and Ford has done a great job on this vehicle. Sad to see it go out of production, but I couldnt be happier with my purchase!

 

[Ecoboostgang]

Mustangs back seats are about wortless. Ive thought about just going a seat delete lol. I'm 6'2 and I scootmy seat almost back as far as it'll go. I do have a 8 yr old that he can sit behind me but ill have to slide seat up to much where it's not really comfortable. Thankfully the wife has a vehicle that we can take out on the weekends if we have the kids . Usely it's just me in my car. I work 4p to 8am and wife works first shift

 

[DaveB]

Ok, I highly recommend the gt350! Or a gt. I drove nothing but camaros from 1998 until March 2020. I still own my 68 ss and 00 z/28. I had a 10 2ss manual that I loved, traded it for my 13 1LE which was just amazing. I drove it daily, and tracked it a few times a year. I never thought I would get rid of it but I traded it on my 350. I really expected to miss it, but I feel bad because I haven't regretted my decision even one time! I daily my 350 and plan to get to the track. I have been driving my wife's gt for the past week and a half because of the snow. Her car is great, but I can't wait to drive mine!
I have not liked the 6th gen camaro since the first time I saw one. The nose and tail don't look right and the interior is very tight. I never understood the complaints about visibility and being dark, until I spent some time in the mustang, and I know the 6th gen is even worse! Personally I do not like the new lt engines and feel they took a few steps backwards from the ls engines. That said, I do like the look of the zl1 with the bigger grille, but it wasn't even an option for me as I don't care for superchargers or turbos. I prefer n/a.
Anyways, I hope this is helpful and I hope that the bickering hasn't scared you away.

 

[Hack]

BTW as far as pricing, you get what you pay for. There is a reason the Camaro is cheaper. And, with their cheap wonderful, fantastic car, sales are dropping like a stone.

You can get them for well under MSRP. And when you try to sell, good luck!

you pay around a 10k premium for a name (shelby) that originally tried to go to GM before ford. I love both cars, but we all make our own decisions what is worth it to us.

IMO the quality of my camaro versus my premium mustang arent really even close so far. Your opinion may differ, and that doesnt offend me. If someone elses opinion about a car offends you or anyone else, they should probably re-evaluate themselves.

To me the GT350 is worth the premium just for the amazing engine. But then you also get out of this world brakes. The brakes not only hold up on track, they have nearly perfect progressive feel and they engage immediately when you step on the pedal.

I also think the exterior styling is great. I think it's the best looking Mustang of the recent models - by far.

If you ever take your Camaro on the track you will find out how boring and annoying it is to have an engine that doesn't wind out well.

I don't like the way the GM cam in block engines make power - given the restrictions of modern emissions and fuel economy laws. I also hate direct injection and skip shift. The steering is numb on Camaros. And just sitting in a Camaro - the cabin is a deal breaker for me. I'm glad GM still makes a Camaro, but I wish they could make it more competitive with the Mustang. And sales show it - the Camaro isn't even close.

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