Charging System Service Now

[davekro]

Process questions:
1) Is there a way to deactivate the door switch easily? I assume the 'door open' switch must be inside the actual door so I cannot deactivate it to access the interior fuse panel. I put the top down in case I have to climb in and stand on my head to access this panel. :doh:

2) I'll wait an hour to insure car is fully asleep, but when I disconnect the neg batt terminal and then connect my meter in series, won't the reconnection wake up the car (and maybe exceed) my meter's 10 amp capacity initially until it goes to sleep again?

EDIT: I remembered I had an amp gauge taken from an old broken charger. It had only been ≈ 10 mins since the car had been fully awake, but I disconnected the neg terminal and put the 15 amp analog gauge in series and it pegged it (shark lights came on, etc.). Should I expect this not to happen after 1 hour of waiting until car is fully asleep? (Also, I just manually locked the hood latch to disable 'hood ajar' sensor.)

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[paul123]

not sure what the question is here. Can you just connect the ammeter and watch it over time? Or are you asking if there will be a current surge as the car wakes up and damage the ammeter?

 

[Falconetti]

This thread is Deja-vu for a Land Rover problem I had. Weeks and weeks of doing all the things people have suggested only to find out that even though everything including the alternator was working, it was in fact a small problem inside the alternator that the car was detecting. A second alternator was also rejected by the Land Rover computer and finally a third was accepted. Like I said everything tested fine, the computer was rejecting it. Don't know if this helps but good luck on tracking this down.

 

[GT Pony]

EDIT: I remembered I had an amp gauge taken from an old broken charger. It had only been ≈ 10 mins since the car had been fully awake, but I disconnected the neg terminal and put the 15 amp analog gauge in series and it pegged it (shark lights came on, etc.). Should I expect this not to happen after 1 hour of waiting until car is fully asleep? (Also, I just manually locked the hood latch to disable 'hood ajar' sensor.)

Sounds like if the battery is disconnected for awhile, then reconnected that the car wakes up and there's a good draw on the battery. In that case, you would have to get an appropriate current shunt resistor and put it in series with the negative side of the battery so the high current draw could be handled.

The car would then go to sleep with the current shunt resistor installed, and then you could monitor the shunt all the time with a voltmeter across the shunt resistor without disturbing the electrical system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunt_(electrical)

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...ias=aps&field-keywords=current+shunt+resistor

 

[davekro]

Update

Glad I had that old analog gauge to experience the spike when hooked up in series. I won't bother trying to discern how many miliamps is being drawn with a multi meter plus resistor. The 0-15 gauge is fine. It spikes to 15+ amps for < 1 second, then drops to 2 amps, then 1 amp, then the crude gauge settles to what looks like zero but we know it's drawing some # of miliamps.

I'll stop my DIY quest and take it to the dealer. At a minimum, they should be able to turn off the warning light and hopefully drill down to some cause like Falconetti got to with his Land Rover.

Am I right that even if you leave an interior light, radio or whatever on, all systems are put to sleep regardless of being left on? I notice my phone charger led goes out after 15-20 mins so I know that circuit shuts down.

Thanks to all for the trouble shooting ideas and tips. I learn a lot from this community!

 

[GT Pony]

Am I right that even if you leave an interior light, radio or whatever on, all systems are put to sleep regardless of being left on? I notice my phone charger led goes out after 15-20 mins so I know that circuit shuts down.

I think that is correct. I just looked in the owner's manual and it doesn't really say specifically, but I think the car will shut down the electrical system if it detects that something has been on for too long while the engine is shut off.

 

[paul123]

How many amp hours are in the car battery? You would think it could supply milliamps for more than few days.

Hopefully this will be a quick fix. Otherwise its going to be: :faint:

 

[davekro]

How many amp hours are in the car battery? You would think it could supply milliamps for more than few days.

Hopefully this will be a quick fix. Otherwise its going to be: :faint:

It has nor problem going several days, except that one time parked in a field for three days.

"Otherwise its going to be: :faint:[/QUOTE]"
This is why I was avoiding going to the dealer... :eye bulge: So, yes hopefully I get lucky and they find something... AND it's covered by warranty. ;)

 

[davekro]

Tested: alternator output too high

An update:
Second test at Napa Auto today was much more thorough than the tests that they did 3 weeks ago. He had me start it, hold engine at elevated rpm, idle, repeat. Turn on headlights and fan to full, etc.
Results: battery good. Alternator charging too high (15.1 V). He said it should charger between 13.5 - 14.5 V. I have usually seen on the dash display 14.2 - 14.6 V as charge voltage. After leaving the test, I did notice that my cig. lighter plugged in voltage indicator showed battery voltage at 14.9 - 15.0 V.


Further info:
I wanted to clarify what was actually going on with the battery/ charging system before attempting a dealer trip (to possibly only hear :shrug: ).

I did a Desulfate cycle and and started with a fully charged battery.
After initial full charge dropped to an equilibrium voltage of ≈ 12.3V, over 9 days of non use, the average daily voltage drop was ≈ +/- .02 V per day. This looks like no unusual current draw from sitting.

Before taking for a second testing at Napa (noted above), I did a second Desulfate / full charge to insure a good test.

Service departments at dealers around me (Livermore, Pittsburg, Brentwood) all seem to get low ratings, as does the dealer I purchased from (Sunnyvale), which is 1.5+ hours away, so I hesitate to waste my time (and a friends) to drop off and pick up the car.

Big Valley Ford in Stockton (40 mins away) seems to have a decent rating for their service dept. so I will plan a trip there soon. At least it feels better to have a possible reason for the "Service Charging System" warning to tell them to check out. If anyone has experience with Big Valley Ford specifically or general experience getting electrical system issues successfully diagnosed and actually fixed, I'd be curious to hear.

 

[GT Pony]

After initial full charge dropped to an equilibrium voltage of ≈ 12.3V, over 9 days of non use, the average daily voltage drop was ≈ +/- .02 V per day. This looks like no unusual current draw from sitting.

Looks a little lower than the self discharge I did on my GT, but probably still within normal discharge rate.

 

[FordTechOne]

An update:
Second test at Napa Auto today was much more thorough than the tests that they did 3 weeks ago. He had me start it, hold engine at elevated rpm, idle, repeat. Turn on headlights and fan to full, etc.
Results: battery good. Alternator charging too high (15.1 V). He said it should charger between 13.5 - 14.5 V. I have usually seen on the dash display 14.2 - 14.6 V as charge voltage. After leaving the test, I did notice that my cig. lighter plugged in voltage indicator showed battery voltage at 14.9 - 15.0 V.

Be wary of the information provided by parts stores, they only go by generic specifications.

The manufacturer's specification for the charging system is 12.6V to 15.5V. The PCM will vary the voltage depending on battery state of charge and electrical system load. Therefore, if the battery has become discharged, the system may run high (15.1V). If the charging system exceeds the threshold of 15.9V, a DTC will set in the PCM (P0563). Likewise, if the voltage drops below threshold, the PCM will set DTC P0562.

Further info:
I wanted to clarify what was actually going on with the battery/ charging system before attempting a dealer trip (to possibly only hear :shrug: ).

I did a Desulfate cycle and and started with a fully charged battery.
After initial full charge dropped to an equilibrium voltage of ≈ 12.3V, over 9 days of non use, the average daily voltage drop was ≈ +/- .02 V per day. This looks like no unusual current draw from sitting.

Before taking for a second testing at Napa (noted above), I did a second Desulfate / full charge to insure a good test.

Service departments at dealers around me (Livermore, Pittsburg, Brentwood) all seem to get low ratings, as does the dealer I purchased from (Sunnyvale), which is 1.5+ hours away, so I hesitate to waste my time (and a friends) to drop off and pick up the car.

Big Valley Ford in Stockton (40 mins away) seems to have a decent rating for their service dept. so I will plan a trip there soon. At least it feels better to have a possible reason for the "Service Charging System" warning to tell them to check out. If anyone has experience with Big Valley Ford specifically or general experience getting electrical system issues successfully diagnosed and actually fixed, I'd be curious to hear.

My recommendation would be to wait until the "Service Charging System" message appears, and then bring the car in for service. That way, a DTC should be set to indicate the nature of the fault. Once the DTC is present, the dealer should be able to diagnose the fault relatively easily by following the published diagnostics.

 

[GT Pony]

My recommendation would be to wait until the "Service Charging System" message appears, and then bring the car in for service. That way, a DTC should be set to indicate the nature of the fault. Once the DTC is present, the dealer should be able to diagnose the fault relatively easily by following the published diagnostics.

In Post #11, he said he checked for DTCs when the message was present, and no codes showed up.

 

[lowatts]

My recommendation would be to wait until the "Service Charging System" message appears, and then bring the car in for service. That way, a DTC should be set to indicate the nature of the fault. Once the DTC is present, the dealer should be able to diagnose the fault relatively easily by following the published diagnostics.

Thanks for that suggestion. I was starting to wonder when I should be concerned with my battery so often going below 12 volt. I parked mine for about 10 day in the recent snow and the rest voltage dropped to 11.1v but it cranked pretty well when I went to start it. I'll wait for a code before I do more for it. It does concern me a bit though that it goes below 12 so often, will probably get short battery life the way it's going.

 

[FordTechOne]

In Post #11, he said he checked for DTCs when the message was present, and no codes showed up.

A generic OBD2 scan tool will not retrieve all DTCs. Modules such as the BCM can set charging system related DTCs; you'll never see them with a generic scan tool. You need IDS to retrieve all DTCs from all modules on the vehicle.

 

[GT Pony]

A generic OBD2 scan tool will not retrieve all DTCs. Modules such as the BCM can set charging system related DTCs; you'll never see them with a generic scan tool. You need IDS to retrieve all DTCs from all modules on the vehicle.

He doesn't say how he checked for codes. I would assume that checking for trouble-codes using the built-in "Engineering Test" mode would show any code that's possible of being set.

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