CAI for Ecoboost - Open vs. Closed Box

[Tune+]

A lot of nonsense here. Here is the best confirmed with dyno testing done live on facebook.

Stock Airbox
AEM DryFlow Air Filter, Cobb Filter, Green Filter - either will work
Airaid Modular Tube
GT Grill
VelossaTech Big Mouth inlet

I have tested this on stock turbo and upgraded turbo making over 400whp and the stock airbox out performs everytime!

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[AR306]

Well 3 out of 5 ain't bad right?

Got my stock box back in, green filter and GT grille on the way...

Will look into the air raid tube and big mouth inlet in the future, thanks for the info Adam.

One thing I know for sure however, the MMR CAI is crap.. Lol. I love how it sounds and it looks neat but it's crap. I said it before (the first time I put the stock box back on for service) but wasn't entirely sure I believed it, the stock box feels better. The car feels smoother and stronger (I was having some rough idle when coming to a stop at a light, went away with the stock box).. I just miss the screaming induction noise and awesome blow off.

 

[rcryniak]

A lot of nonsense here. .... I have tested this on stock turbo and upgraded turbo making over 400whp and the stock airbox out performs everytime!

Adam, far be it for me to contest your results; if you say the stock airbox outperforms with your tunes, then I believe you; all good.

That said, everything that moves follows the path of least resistance seeking equilibrium with its environment as the nature of physics demands. (High pressure to vaccum, high charge to low charge, high temp to low temp, etc.) As such, in line with physical law (rather than in line with "nonsense"), it stands to reason that greater surface area with the same substrate allows air to pass through more readily. Think of breathing through a straw vs. breathing through a snorkel vs. breathing naturally... more available bandwidth = more air per unit of time.

Since cars don't break the laws of physics... except maybe my SHO, there's just something magical about that bull... the real question I have is why does the stock air box outperform all aftermarket intakes on your tunes? The only logical explanations I can think of are (and this is just an exercise, no claims actually being made, just questions and reasonings):

1. Perhaps the stock airbox rate of flow is "just right" with aftermarket intakes offering "too much"; where less restriction in airflow affects sensors or other parts negatively, leading to slightly decreased performance. (This seems unlikely somehow?)
2. Perhaps the stock air filters actually flow more air than aftermarket ones... but if so, given the smaller surface area, they'd have to be more porous by necessity to pull that off... but obviously well within specs since it's an OE part. (This seems unlikely as well, as I doubt the aftermarket manufacturers would utilize a filter material that would hurt their bottom line.)
3. Perhaps the design of the stock tubing, in spite of the accordion connector, allows more airflow. (This also seems unlikely to me.)
4. Perhaps the aftermarket parts are allow far more heat soak, so that even with a higher volume of air, it's less dense, and ultimately a net loss?
5. Perhaps there's something you could be doing in tuning to make the necessary adjustments to account for the increase in air. (No offense intended here, just running through all the possibilities, even if improbable.)

Those are just ideas off the top of my head... I'd really like to learn what's really going on there, why you're getting the results you're getting. The only claim I can actually make is that at least for some makes of car, an aftermarket intake is very beneficial, some more than others (obviously.)

So, again, I'm truly curious why your numbers show the stock box making the most power. It's one thing to just nod and agree and say, "oh, ok, this expert said so" and another thing to actually understand why. Since you're the expert and undoubtedly know the intricacies of how each parameter affects the performance of the vehicle, any light you can shed, however technical, would be just awesome to hear.

Thanks!! Much appreciated in advance!

 

[AR306]

Well it was christmas in september.. I ordered 5 items from 4 sites on 2 different carriers on 2 different days and everything arrived on the same day almost at the same time.

So I mentioned previously IAT temps looked a lot better since getting rid of the MMR CAI (and putting the stock box back on) as well as the car felt better/stronger. With the Green Filter in, I feel more responsiveness on initial take off and pulls strong and smooth to red line. I also hear a little bit more turbo whistle which is awesome, wish I could get some more of that.. Lol.

I also bought some vinyl/plastic cap thingy's that Adam recommended for the recirculation tube disconnect mod, unfortunately they're sold in packs of 100 each, so needless to say I have plenty of spares.. But in this regard, does anyone know of anything else that can be done to make the stock bov either louder and/or sound better?.. (nothing that requires a tune..) it sounds fairly weak just disconnecting the recirculation tube.

Anyway, I got the GT grille, I'm going to drill out the holes for the intake with my new titanium drill bits Lol.. I can't wait to see what that does for temps and power in combination with the green filter. I'm thinking about getting that ram air scoop thingy, but is the air raid modular tube really that big of an improvement over the stock tube? looks fairly the same.

 

[speedfrk]

A lot of nonsense here. Here is the best confirmed with dyno testing done live on facebook.

Stock Airbox
AEM DryFlow Air Filter, Cobb Filter, Green Filter - either will work
Airaid Modular Tube
GT Grill
VelossaTech Big Mouth inlet

I have tested this on stock turbo and upgraded turbo making over 400whp and the stock airbox out performs everytime!

Your thoughts on why FR is including a CAI with their tune? Marketing, maybe to justify the price? It looks good but it does seem like overkill on a 4cyl engine.

 

[AR306]

Something I was not aware of and found out the hard way..

You can not swap the pony emblem from one grille to another.. Lol. I broke the tabs on my stock pony, and now my GT grille is in pony-less.

On another note, HUGE difference in IAT's with the drilled out GT grille. stock air box and green filter.. while driving, the IAT went as low as 2 degrees above ambient at just 95. By comparison:

So yeah, very happy with the results. Drilling the holes was a pita, so was removing the bumper screws in the wheel wells, but overall was fairly easy and straight forward. I now have to buy the lower grille, as well as 2 new pony emblems and retaining circular thingy's and am considering getting the velossa ram air inlet.

So the conclusion is: do not waste money on a CAI unless you want wooshing noises Lol. I loved the sound of the MMR CAI but as you can see it was absolutely terrible for performance. I can't imagine any other CAI that's open element would do any better nor do I think there is much benefit in a cone style enclosed CAI that uses the inlet. And if Adam says stock box with high performance filter, mod tube and velossa inlet is the best way to go, that's good enough for me.

 

[CustomS550]

I dont agree with your analysis of the MMR CAI being terrible or useless. As soon as the car was moving the AIT were always no more than 10 degrees over ambient in my particular car. The turbo also sounded happy and free flowing. The only issue i had with this CAI is water ingestion during hard rain and highway driving. With the stock intake the temperature differential is sometimes as great as 25 degrees! I dont know why, possibly a piece of plastic or foam around the radiator isn't seated correctly after he IC install...in defense of the stock intake configuration, the same box and filter is used on the GT so they must flow more than enough for the ecoboost

Something I was not aware of and found out the hard way..

You can not swap the pony emblem from one grille to another.. Lol. I broke the tabs on my stock pony, and now my GT grille is in pony-less.

On another note, HUGE difference in IAT's with the drilled out GT grille. stock air box and green filter.. while driving, the IAT went as low as 2 degrees above ambient at just 95. By comparison:

So yeah, very happy with the results. Drilling the holes was a pita, so was removing the bumper screws in the wheel wells, but overall was fairly easy and straight forward. I now have to buy the lower grille, as well as 2 new pony emblems and retaining circular thingy's and am considering getting the velossa ram air inlet.

So the conclusion is: do not waste money on a CAI unless you want wooshing noises Lol. I loved the sound of the MMR CAI but as you can see it was absolutely terrible for performance. I can't imagine any other CAI that's open element would do any better nor do I think there is much benefit in a cone style enclosed CAI that uses the inlet. And if Adam says stock box with high performance filter, mod tube and velossa inlet is the best way to go, that's good enough for me.

 

[AR306]

I say the quality isn't the greatest.. when I received my MMR CAI the insides were dirty and oily. The port where the temp sensor goes into is really rough with a jagged piece of metal sticking out that I've been unable to remove. Then the end that goes to the turbo is flattened on one side.. I'm not sure if that's a bug or a feature as they say.. Lol.

In any case, I felt like my car launched harder with the MMR CAI from a dig but it quickly got up there in temps and during the day the car just feels so sluggish. I got beat a damn V6 altima one time.. I was not happy. Now with the stock box it feels so much smoother and it feels like it pulls harder to redline. With the green filter and grille mod temps never climbed higher than 115 on a 93 degree 100% humidity day sitting in traffic.. and as soon as I started moving temps quickly dropped to slightly above ambient. I've never seen temps that low in the middle of the day.. only at night.

Then again, I have no idea what my charge temp is so maybe it's all for nothing Lol. The butt dyno always lies anyway.

 

[Diablocoastie]

This has already been done but ideas on 3"CAI piping from the stock air box at the flex joint to the turbo. Kind of have a bit of both worlds and opens up the bottle neck at the adapter to the turbo inlet.

 

[PRG3k]

In any case, I felt like my car launched harder with the MMR CAI from a dig but it quickly got up there in temps and during the day the car just feels so sluggish. I got beat a damn V6 altima one time..

Yeah, thank your intake for that...

You are probably seeing a slight increase in torque from the sealed box, but I've got to break it to you...It's your shitty intercooler causing most of your power issues.

 

[AR306]

Yeah, thank your intake for that...

You are probably seeing a slight increase in torque from the sealed box, but I've got to break it to you...It's your shitty intercooler causing most of your power issues.

Well my plan originally was to replace the stock intercooler with something comparable to the smaller mishimoto to deal with the heat soak.. I don't plan on getting a tune or any other bolt ons, some of the guys here said it would not be that beneficial without a tune so I should instead try the grille mod with the stock box which I have seen a great benefit from.

I'd still consider getting an intercooler tho.. the mod bug bit me for a few days, I removed the mmr CAI, did the gt grille swap, green filter and almost ordered the ford performance strut brace and mishimoto intercooler Lol.. until I went to the dealer for servicing and they had a black GT PP premium parked out front, they fired that baby up and the mod bug immediately died. Now I got the "I need to save up for a GT manual and hopefully my insurance rate goes down in the near future" bug Lol.

I still want to have some fun with this car without voiding the warranty tho.. I'm stuck with it for at least one more year I'd like to enjoy it for what it is without dumping too much cash into it, my insurance just went up for no reason at all... :doh:

 

[JamesinLittleSilver]

Do the FP Strut Brace...is amazing difference cheap and if I can do it myself anyone can.

 

[AR306]

Honestly I should of gotten the strut brace.. I messed up on that.

At first I got the GT upper grille from bear lake.. was only $30 but $24 for shipping, which was fine because AM has the same grille for $200 Lol.

Then I found out I couldn't transfer the pony from my old grille to the new one, so I ordered the pony ($45) from bear lake and figured might as well do the bottom grille too ($50) + $24 shipping again, ordered it right away.

Then I figured since I'm taking off the bumper again I should do the intercooler and I wanted the strut brace because it looks cool Lol, so I shopped around, didn't find a price I was happy with, went to the dealer saw the GT, changed my mind about spending more money but then I realized bear lake Ford has the FP strut brace for $150.. cj has it for $200, AM is like $180.. but again I would have to pay $24 for shipping..

I didn't feel like paying $72 for shipping from bear lake (same place) in the span of a week heh, so I put off the FP brace for now. Had I ordered everything at once I would of saved $48 and an afternoon worth of work having to remove the bumper twice.. :headbonk:

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