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Building the motor

SolarFlare

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Im at 750whp on 93, there are no e-85 stations for 40 miles where I live, So i run Sunoco 93 + Half a bottle of lucas octane booster with every fill up. You can get a 12 pack of lucas octane booster for about $80 on Amazon. Its a lot less expensive then running e-85 when you compare it to the poor fuel mileage you get with E-85. I don't use the Lucas to add power per say, i use it for protection against bad gas. If I go to the track I just buy a 5 gallon can of vp racing unleaded fuel at the track.
To be perfectly honest no one has ever mentioned that Lucas stuff to me as any good. The 3 that have always been recommended are Torco, octanium and boostane. I think you think it’s working but you’re just not seeing any knock because the 93 in your area is decent.
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Dominant1

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like I said Lucas is more for protection than power its only good for 2 or 3 points on the octane level. My tuner was able to get 18 degrees of no-knock timing with it in the tank.
 

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If Mercedes can build a 2 liter 4-cylinder that makes 416 hp and will live on whatever samsclub gas you put in the tank, why is the specific output so laughable for us?
 

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If Mercedes can build a 2 liter 4-cylinder that makes 416 hp and will live on whatever samsclub gas you put in the tank, why is the specific output so laughable for us?
Just curious, what is your current combo? Not trying to discredit your efforts, experience or be condescending in any way. Just want to know what you roll with.
 

Barrel

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E85 is the best shit since sliced bread for racers.

My anecdote:

In a half mile pass I'm maybe 150 yards from the finish line, in 5th gear, WOT, north of 165mph and near 6800rpm and 15psi. The car had dyno'ed at 930rwhp in the configuration I was running. The fuel pressure overcame the fitting from the line to the stock fuel rail and popped off. Just like that, fuel pressure to the motor dropped to 0 and I lost all power. Did my motor blow up from going lean under that much rpm and load? It did not. I had pump E85 in the tank from the station 10 miles from my house and no other additives in the tank. No damage to the motor at all. Popped the line back on and fired up with no issues.

I'm never running anything other than alcohol in a modded FI car again.
 

engineermike

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Just curious, what is your current combo? Not trying to discredit your efforts, experience or be condescending in any way. Just want to know what you roll with.
Currently I am running a 2018 mustang GT A10 with a stage 2 Whipple. I’ve swapped to the stage 1 pulley (and considered larger) to ensure reliability because the supplied pulley doesn’t leave much room for error.

My last “fast” car was a custom turbocharged 388 LT1 4th gen F-body. I designed and built the engine combination and turbo system myself. It ran 9.9 at 146 mph at full street weight on DOT tires and pump gas. It was 8.4/1 compression.

Silly me, I was thinking if I could do it 15 years ago with a 2-valve head, vastly inferior engine controls, and 20% of the knowledge/experience/contacts I have now, then why can’t I do it now? Surely the LT1 wasn’t just that much superior to the coyote, no? So, I’ve been planning a build that includes stroking to 5.4 liters and dropping compression to 10/1. I’ve done months of engine thermodynamic kinematic modeling and benchmarking to arrive at the combination and I’m still refining the model. I honestly didn’t realize just how pivotal something as basic as the compression ratio was until I started building something akin to GTPower engine models. Honestly, the biggest struggle I’m having at the moment is the idea of jerking the engine out of my low-mile daily driver.
 

SolarFlare

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E85 is the best shit since sliced bread for racers.

My anecdote:

In a half mile pass I'm maybe 150 yards from the finish line, in 5th gear, WOT, north of 165mph and near 6800rpm and 15psi. The car had dyno'ed at 930rwhp in the configuration I was running. The fuel pressure overcame the fitting from the line to the stock fuel rail and popped off. Just like that, fuel pressure to the motor dropped to 0 and I lost all power. Did my motor blow up from going lean under that much rpm and load? It did not. I had pump E85 in the tank from the station 10 miles from my house and no other additives in the tank. No damage to the motor at all. Popped the line back on and fired up with no issues.

I'm never running anything other than alcohol in a modded FI car again.
piggy backing on that ive seen a few logs from guys running at or close to 1.00 lambda at 130+ on pump e85 close to 850whp and not blow. Man did it like 3 times in 2 weeks, first pullied down on DW400 and BAP and went lean up top. Then installed a fuel system, put down 880whp and did 2 back to back 40-140 pulls on a single Ti-274 pump, the secondary 285 pump's power supply wire fell off the FC3 controller, went to almost 1.00 lambda both times and its still running. Stock Gen 3, 12:1 comp, 15psi.
 

engineermike

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Is anyone arguing that pump gas is a superior or safer race fuel than E85?
 

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Currently I am running a 2018 mustang GT A10 with a stage 2 Whipple. I’ve swapped to the stage 1 pulley (and considered larger) to ensure reliability because the supplied pulley doesn’t leave much room for error.

My last “fast” car was a custom turbocharged 388 LT1 4th gen F-body. I designed and built the engine combination and turbo system myself. It ran 9.9 at 146 mph at full street weight on DOT tires and pump gas. It was 8.4/1 compression.

Silly me, I was thinking if I could do it 15 years ago with a 2-valve head, vastly inferior engine controls, and 20% of the knowledge/experience/contacts I have now, then why can’t I do it now? Surely the LT1 wasn’t just that much superior to the coyote, no? So, I’ve been planning a build that includes stroking to 5.4 liters and dropping compression to 10/1. I’ve done months of engine thermodynamic kinematic modeling and benchmarking to arrive at the combination and I’m still refining the model. I honestly didn’t realize just how pivotal something as basic as the compression ratio was until I started building something akin to GTPower engine models. Honestly, the biggest struggle I’m having at the moment is the idea of jerking the engine out of my low-mile daily driver.
more cubic inches, turbo less parasitic loss, @146 weight dependent prob made 900ish crank horse. OP wants 900 RWHP, with a centri blower, with 30% less displacement.
 

Angrey

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If Mercedes can build a 2 liter 4-cylinder that makes 416 hp and will live on whatever samsclub gas you put in the tank, why is the specific output so laughable for us?
Is anyone arguing that pump gas is a superior or safer race fuel than E85?
We're unclear. You tell us. Is your position that someone should run 8.8:1 and E85 with a zillion psi on a pulley the size of a bottle cap?
 

engineermike

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We're unclear. You tell us. Is your position that someone should run 8.8:1 and E85 with a zillion psi on a pulley the size of a bottle cap?
I have been completely clear. I tend to think you folks are either using the straw man tactic or you’re arguing with what you think i think. I haven’t stated or implied anywhere that low compression is ideal for E85 or that pump gas is a superior fuel for racing.
 

SolarFlare

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No...you’ve used a small percent of the car population that’s limited (though not really) by availability of E85 at local stations combined with the need of big HP to fuel the argument that low compression with a ton of boost and pump chocolate milk is a good idea and makes tons of power.
 

engineermike

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more cubic inches, turbo less parasitic loss, @146 weight dependent prob made 900ish crank horse. OP wants 900 RWHP, with a centri blower, with 30% less displacement.
Correct on cid and turbo losses. But as compared to the turbo LT1, our cylinder heads and engine controls are vastly superior, we have 25% more rpm available, and the 18+ has DI. The old LT1 didn’t make power past 6000 rpm. 900 rwhp is a tall order on pump gas but very far from impossible. Palm Beach Dyno made 890 rwhp on 93 with a GT500 so I would suggest learning and applying as much as can be from that. I can predict what compression it would take to achieve 900 rwhp on 93 and be OEM-reliable but you guys wouldn’t like that answer. But consider for a second that a current Mercury Racing inboard V8 runs on 93 with port injection and has a BMEP of over 24 bar. The motor will run reliably at WOT for hundreds of hours. It has 7.8/1 compression. 24 bar BMEP in a coyote would put about 810 hp/640 ftlb to the wheels and be rock-solid reliable on 93.
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