Boosted Mach 1 on E85; Forgot How Much E It Drinks!

[Mach1Racer]

That’s probably because they couldn’t figure out the fuel line volume issue. Hpt still hasn’t defined the parameters needed to fix that, last I checked.

My car doesn’t use HP Tuners…

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[engineermike]

My car doesn’t use HP Tuners…

It’s highly likely, almost certain, that Lund is using hpt software to tune your car.

 

[Mach1Racer]

It’s highly likely, almost certain, that Lund is using hpt software to tune your car.

Maybe, maybe not. I’m just not driving it out of town like my other cars. I just tow it with my truck and trailer. I only do car shows and street races now days for the most part.

 

[Mikepol2]

The second someone comes out with a flex tune for boost, and a reasonable fuel system for it I will be opening up the purse strings.

 

[engineermike]

I’m sure this week will may some here sick to the stomach because of the hate but here we go…

Just want things to be factual accurate.

Ok poor guy is uninformed. At the 5 minute mark he finally starts to get into his issue and demonstrates he clearly doesn’t understand how the logic works. He seems to think that a vacuum leak can be misinterpreted as ethanol in the fuel. There are a couple of problems with this. For starters the learning sequence is normally complete within about 10 minutes after a refuel and it locks in, or matures, on a stoichiometry. So the air leak would have to develop specifically during this time period for it to be a problem. Secondly, oem diagnostics of an air leak are based on LTFT. The LTFT lock to existing values during the ethanol learning phase, so in an off chance that an air leak develops during the learning phase, the LTFT will not be affected and the diagnostics still work. And even if you still don't trust the oem flex logic, it is possible to add an ethanol sensor in combination with PCMTec logic to make the Ford flex work like GM.

Next, he says if you go to the pump and buy E50 it could be half low octane and wind up worse than good 93. This is false and I have the graphs to prove it. Greg Banish, who is highly credible in the area, has even stated that anything over 50% ethanol is unnecessary in almost every case.

Around 9:30 he talks about running one tune on pump gas, then a flex tune during a learning phase, then an E85 tune once you've transitioned fuels. This is just laughable to have to switch tunes twice to switch fuels once.

The man seems to have lots of air leak problems which causes inaccurate learning. In all likelihood, it's due to what I mentioned earlier. When the oem logic senses a re-fuel, it initiates the learn cycle. Once stoic stabilizes, it locks in. The problem is that it would stabilize and lock in before the new fuel even reaches the motor. Ford built in logic to make it use up all the fuel in the lines, filter, pumps, and rails before it would even allow it to lock in. However, these volumes are all defaulted to 0 lb in the Gen3 mustang tune and hptuners doesn't have access to correct them. They are defaulted correctly in the F150. There are also some cold-start fueling parameters that hptuners doesn't seem to have access to, which makes these cars start up perfectly fine in cold temps on E85, which the big tuners seem to have issues with as well.

 

[Mach1Racer]

Ok poor guy is uninformed. At the 5 minute mark he finally starts to get into his issue and demonstrates he clearly doesn’t understand how the logic works. He seems to think that a vacuum leak can be misinterpreted as ethanol in the fuel. There are a couple of problems with this. For starters the learning sequence is normally complete within about 10 minutes after a refuel and it locks in, or matures, on a stoichiometry. So the air leak would have to develop specifically during this time period for it to be a problem. Secondly, oem diagnostics of an air leak are based on LTFT. The LTFT lock to existing values during the ethanol learning phase, so in an off chance that an air leak develops during the learning phase, the LTFT will not be affected and the diagnostics still work. And even if you still don't trust the oem flex logic, it is possible to add an ethanol sensor in combination with PCMTec logic to make the Ford flex work like GM.

Next, he says if you go to the pump and buy E50 it could be half low octane and wind up worse than good 93. This is false and I have the graphs to prove it. Greg Banish, who is highly credible in the area, has even stated that anything over 50% ethanol is unnecessary in almost every case.

Around 9:30 he talks about running one tune on pump gas, then a flex tune during a learning phase, then an E85 tune once you've transitioned fuels. This is just laughable to have to switch tunes twice to switch fuels once.

The man seems to have lots of air leak problems which causes inaccurate learning. In all likelihood, it's due to what I mentioned earlier. When the oem logic senses a re-fuel, it initiates the learn cycle. Once stoic stabilizes, it locks in. The problem is that it would stabilize and lock in before the new fuel even reaches the motor. Ford built in logic to make it use up all the fuel in the lines, filter, pumps, and rails before it would even allow it to lock in. However, these volumes are all defaulted to 0 lb in the Gen3 mustang tune and hptuners doesn't have access to correct them. They are defaulted correctly in the F150. There are also some cold-start fueling parameters that hptuners doesn't seem to have access to, which makes these cars start up perfectly fine in cold temps on E85, which the big tuners seem to have issues with as well.

Glad I don’t have those problems.

 

[RTFM]

Wasn’t PCMTEC supposed to open a new era of flex fuel tuning, for N/A as well as for boosts?
I was expecting a lot of tunes and kits, but maybe I am not looking at the right places.

 

[engineermike]

Glad I don’t have those problems.

Me neither, gladly. And both of my boosted coyotes are flex fuel with oem-logic variable boost by ethanol content. Works fantastically well.

 

[engineermike]

Wasn’t PCMTEC supposed to open a new era of flex fuel tuning, for N/A as well as for boosts?
I was expecting a lot of tunes and kits, but maybe I am not looking at the right places.

They put the software out there but the tuners and parts houses that be never really picked it up and ran with it. Pcmtec makes software, not tuning, hardware sensor kits, nor fancy flash devices.

 

[Mach1Racer]

...So how bad is your fuel mileage? My NA Mach 1 w/ Tremec is at 10 mpg and my son's NA 2022 GT w/10R80 was at 15 mpg. (Both Wengerd E85 Tunes) I'm hoping to get my car on the track, soon, so I suspect I'll need plenty of refills.

Just did ruff calculation of the MPG. After filling up and driving 60 miles and using nearly a 1/4 tank of gas (4 gallons).

This was with spirited driving (90mph) on the highway and a little city driving.

You can’t really trust the Miles to Empty because it seems to calculate the worst case scenario but when it says zero, you better within a half mile of the gas station down hill.

 

[sdskinner73]

You mentioned you live in the Midwest. Which part? I’m in Indiana and E85 is plentiful around me. I forget sometimes other states don’t have it so readily available.
The only minor difficulty that may arise is driving out of town to visit family, but I have stations saved along the way. My fill ups are about 230 for a full tank.

 

[Mach1Racer]

You mentioned you live in the Midwest. Which part? I’m in Indiana and E85 is plentiful around me. I forget sometimes other states don’t have it so readily available.
The only minor difficulty that may arise is driving out of town to visit family, but I have stations saved along the way. My fill ups are about 230 for a full tank.

Scott AFB in Illinois on Hwy 64, there is only 1 E85 gas station near Hwy 64. If you’re driving to Indiana, you have about 170 miles to get to the next one. If you have to hit a detour driving that way, this could be unfortunate.

If you don’t live near either because your in the middle, you better have jugs. If you run a Flex you wouldn’t have any problems.

The other issue I find is that I would like full power during the entire trip, therefore I’m not interested in a tune lowering the power due to switching between gas and E85.

My old Pontiac GTO had a 447 LSX (7.3 liter, 10:1 compressionwith a F1A-94 Procharger making 1000rwhp on pump 93 and two 1000cc nozzles of methanol on a map. Full power all the time on a RPM Transmission fully built T-56 and RXT Twin disc.

Twin AEM 1000cc Nozzles above the Big Red Blow-Off Valve on the left. All custom piping.

Most didn’t know what hit them when I’m riding thru your city from out of town and you try the GTO thinking shit is sweet. Those were the best times around 2009-13. Drive all the way to Bourbon Street from the Midwest tune on kill!

 

[Pistol_91]

Been there done that.. lol it does suck. Luckily you made it.

 

[SheepDog]

My DTE estimator says 170 miles on a full tank. Good thing there are stations with E85 all up and down the front range, and enough up in the mountains but going out of state with this pig is pretty much out of the question.

Live look at me going on a road trip...

 

[Mach1Racer]

My DTE estimator says 170 miles on a full tank. Good thing there are stations with E85 all up and down the front range, and enough up in the mountains but going out of state with this pig is pretty much out of the question.

Live look at me going on a road trip...

Hey, my 1st air frame was the C-130 @ Little Rock AFB then C-135’s at RAF Mildenhall. The KC-135 is the tanker.

I love these pictures man!

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