Bizarre Dealer Feedback After CEL Diagnosis

[Maxpa0wer]

So I have a 2015 mustang gt without any major performance mods. Had an AEM CAI on for a little while because it’s CARB legal and didn’t require a tune, then I got the dreaded Check Engine Light. Returned the CAI to stock and brought the car into my local Ford dealer for diagnosis.

Got P0308 and U3003, however the dealer is saying they can’t do any further diagnosis on the misfire because there’s, according to them, something “aftermarket plugged into the DLC port”. Figured he meant OBD II port, which I know not to be true since I’ve plugged into it to use for FORSCAN. He then specified it was the DLC which is located “near the OBD II port”. That makes no sense to me, but maybe I’m missing something. According to him, whatever that aftermarket part is, it’s causing the codes and removing it should resolve all issues, but they don’t “touch anything aftermarket”. Again, makes zero sense to me.

Does this feedback make sense to anyone else? Perhaps the diagnostic is reading an aftermarket tune? I bought the car used, so have no idea what was done to it beforehand. Really frustrated since I bought a 3rd Party warranty for these types of issues and am afraid it’s now voided.

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[Tinpot]

It appears to be the same thing -

 

[Cobra Jet]

Ford has started to back off touching vehicles where they have been found to be modified. It's a risk for their shop to touch it, then have something snowball into more issues because the Owner opted to do XYZ changes. These shops aren't in the business to fix issues created by a modification or aftermarket tunes - or chasing it down. They are trained to fix Ford vehicles as they were built, per the shop manuals and possibilities/diagnosis outlined for XYZ repair.

They have every right to do so, and it's different at every dealer since each is a Franchised owned shop. They're taking this stance because Tech's are wasting time chasing after problems that are caused by modifications and/or issues where they can't reflash the PCM's back to stock OR perform updates on the fly because an owner went "Forscan" on it, added options AFTER the "As Built", OR has some aftermarket tune incorporated that locked the PCM because of the Vendor's PCM "lock".

Also for every bay tied up with a vehicle in it where they are chasing problems from an Owner who modified the vehicle (be it first owner or subsequent 2, 3, or 4th owner after) that vehicle is costing the shop $$$ when it's taking hours or days chasing down who knows what because of XYZ mod.

In fact, I had posted well over a year ago SSM's from Ford telling their Shops that they will not warranty any repair where it's been found that the customer (1st or subsequent other) has modified As Built parameters or added S550 options (even though Ford parts) to a vehicle that originally didn't come with it.

It's going to get worse with the S650; no one wants to believe it, but trust me - people aren't going to be able to mod like they used to then "revert" software mods or remove items that affected PCM parameters on the newer Mustangs without the Ford software tracking and storing those changes come time for a "warranty" repair.

 

[Jstang23]

So I have a 2015 mustang gt without any major performance mods. Had an AEM CAI on for a little while because it’s CARB legal and didn’t require a tune, then I got the dreaded Check Engine Light. Returned the CAI to stock and brought the car into my local Ford dealer for diagnosis.

Got P0308 and U3003, however the dealer is saying they can’t do any further diagnosis on the misfire because there’s, according to them, something “aftermarket plugged into the DLC port”. Figured he meant OBD II port, which I know not to be true since I’ve plugged into it to use for FORSCAN. He then specified it was the DLC which is located “near the OBD II port”. That makes no sense to me, but maybe I’m missing something. According to him, whatever that aftermarket part is, it’s causing the codes and removing it should resolve all issues, but they don’t “touch anything aftermarket”. Again, makes zero sense to me.

Does this feedback make sense to anyone else? Perhaps the diagnostic is reading an aftermarket tune? I bought the car used, so have no idea what was done to it beforehand. Really frustrated since I bought a 3rd Party warranty for these types of issues and am afraid it’s now voided.

If you bought the car used from a Ford dealership, then they should have either let you know that it was tuned aftermarket or switched it back to a ford tuning. In addition, the paperwork you signed for the 3rd party warranty should cover the car as you purchased it. You might get away with saying you haven't changed anything since you bought it. So, if it ends up being tuned or had aftermarket parts installed that voids your warranty you're going to be in for a very rocky road with the dealership you bought it from. Most likely ending in some sort of litigation. If you bought it from a 3rd party then have a talk with your warranty company, but more than likely you're SOL. Sorry man, hope it works out!

 

[KingKona]

....the dealer is saying they can’t do any further diagnosis on the misfire because there’s, according to them, something “aftermarket plugged into the DLC port”......

So???? What is it?

What's plugged into the DLC port?

 

[smoke_wagon_6g]

The OBD port is the DLC port. Same thing. Might be more precise to say the Data Link Connector is how external tools integrate with the On-Board Diagnostics II system. The DLC is always within 2 feet of the driver.

You say you car is without "major performance mods." What is a "major" mod? Did the car require a tune? Was the tune ever done? Did the dealer flash back to stock during troubleshooting? Too many unknowns here.

Look, Cobra Jet knows what he's talking about. You have to always see it from the shop's point of view. They're here to make money for their bills and their families, not to waste time with erratic and unfixable trouble.

Sometimes the only way to fix a modified car in a reasonable time frame is to return it completely to stock, then follow the shop manual which makes assumptions as to how the car works.

If you bought the car used from a Ford dealership, then they should have either let you know that it was tuned aftermarket or switched it back to a ford tuning. In addition, the paperwork you signed for the 3rd party warranty should cover the car as you purchased it. You might get away with saying you haven't changed anything since you bought it. So, if it ends up being tuned or had aftermarket parts installed that voids your warranty you're going to be in for a very rocky road with the dealership you bought it from. Most likely ending in some sort of litigation. If you bought it from a 3rd party then have a talk with your warranty company, but more than likely you're SOL. Sorry man, hope it works out!

New Jersey law gives you 30 (or 60 days, I forget) to return a warranty for a full refund. Check your CA laws, probably similar.

For the rest of you guys just forget about buying a warranty for an 8 year old Mustang and keep a few thousand dollars in reserve.

The problem you're going to have is finding a dealership to touch it at any price.

 

[KingKona]

......the dealer is saying they can’t do any further diagnosis on the misfire because there’s, according to them, something “aftermarket plugged into the DLC port”. Figured he meant OBD II port, which I know not to be true since I’ve plugged into it to use for FORSCAN. He then specified it was the DLC which is located “near the OBD II port”. That makes no sense to me, but maybe I’m missing something. According to him, whatever that aftermarket part is, it’s causing the codes and removing it should resolve all issues, but they don’t “touch anything aftermarket”.

They're either stupid, ignorant, or lying.

Or you are.....can't tell.

 

[Jstang23]

They're either stupid, ignorant, or lying.

Or you are.....can't tell.

If the OP is using FORSCAN he's more than likely aware of what's on or not on the OBD2 port. I am almost certain the blame is pointed at the dealership or whoever he bought the car from.

 

[Maxpa0wer]

Ford has started to back off touching vehicles where they have been found to be modified. It's a risk for their shop to touch it, then have something snowball into more issues because the Owner opted to do XYZ changes. These shops aren't in the business to fix issues created by a modification or aftermarket tunes - or chasing it down. They are trained to fix Ford vehicles as they were built, per the shop manuals and possibilities/diagnosis outlined for XYZ repair.

They have every right to do so, and it's different at every dealer since each is a Franchised owned shop. They're taking this stance because Tech's are wasting time chasing after problems that are caused by modifications and/or issues where they can't reflash the PCM's back to stock OR perform updates on the fly because an owner went "Forscan" on it, added options AFTER the "As Built", OR has some aftermarket tune incorporated that locked the PCM because of the Vendor's PCM "lock".

Also for every bay tied up with a vehicle in it where they are chasing problems from an Owner who modified the vehicle (be it first owner or subsequent 2, 3, or 4th owner after) that vehicle is costing the shop $$$ when it's taking hours or days chasing down who knows what because of XYZ mod.

In fact, I had posted well over a year ago SSM's from Ford telling their Shops that they will not warranty any repair where it's been found that the customer (1st or subsequent other) has modified As Built parameters or added S550 options (even though Ford parts) to a vehicle that originally didn't come with it.

It's going to get worse with the S650; no one wants to believe it, but trust me - people aren't going to be able to mod like they used to then "revert" software mods or remove items that affected PCM parameters on the newer Mustangs without the Ford software tracking and storing those changes come time for a "warranty" repair.

Oh I’m not blaming the dealer for not touching a car with aftermarket parts, tunes, etc. I am more puzzled by their explanation as to why the CEL is on and what codes are being thrown.

 

[Maxpa0wer]

If the OP is using FORSCAN he's more than likely aware of what's on or not on the OBD2 port. I am almost certain the blame is pointed at the dealership or whoever he bought the car from.

Many thanks @Jstang23, yeah not sure why I’d be lying or how my post is “stupid“ or “ignorant” but that’s the internet I suppose.

Mainly just wondering if anyone thinks the dealership’s feedback makes any sense, but looks like my suspicion is confirmed and the DLC and OBD II port are the same. Then it becomes a mystery as to how to move forward, with or without the warranty, to get the CEL and codes addressed.

 

[Jstang23]

Many thanks @Jstang23, yeah not sure why I’d be lying or how my post is “stupid“ or “ignorant” but that’s the internet I suppose.

Mainly just wondering if anyone thinks the dealership’s feedback makes any sense, but looks like my suspicion is confirmed and the DLC and OBD II port are the same. Then it becomes a mystery as to how to move forward, with or without the warranty, to get the CEL and codes addressed.

Long story short it doesn't make sense. Leave it to the internet to spend 5 pages of a thread to figure out something with very little information only to get it wrong I would just go to the dealership, say you disagree with their conclusion, speak to the manager (you may have to push for this as they always seem to be "out of the office" whenever something like this happens), and hopefully come to a resolution. However, I would strongly suggest taking it to another dealership as this one seems fishy from the get go. Cheers!

 

[ORRadtech]

Why are you taking it to a dealer anyway? Does that aftermarket warranty require it? A good independent shop is going to be less expensive and probably easier to work with.
Still, I know that even some independents are refusing to work on vehicles with aftermarket changes.

 

[furdfan2018]

 

[Gfswindle]

My guess is if you have modified any values in forscan to alter the as-built configuration that is what the dealer saw and immediately jumped to the conclusion to say something aftermarket has modified the vehicle and could be causing said issues even though modifying anything with forscan will not lead to the issues you state. It's either ignorance or convenience on the dealer's part to not diagnose further.

Ford has started to back off touching vehicles where they have been found to be modified. It's a risk for their shop to touch it, then have something snowball into more issues because the Owner opted to do XYZ changes. These shops aren't in the business to fix issues created by a modification or aftermarket tunes - or chasing it down. They are trained to fix Ford vehicles as they were built, per the shop manuals and possibilities/diagnosis outlined for XYZ repair.

They have every right to do so, and it's different at every dealer since each is a Franchised owned shop. They're taking this stance because Tech's are wasting time chasing after problems that are caused by modifications and/or issues where they can't reflash the PCM's back to stock OR perform updates on the fly because an owner went "Forscan" on it, added options AFTER the "As Built", OR has some aftermarket tune incorporated that locked the PCM because of the Vendor's PCM "lock".

Also for every bay tied up with a vehicle in it where they are chasing problems from an Owner who modified the vehicle (be it first owner or subsequent 2, 3, or 4th owner after) that vehicle is costing the shop $$$ when it's taking hours or days chasing down who knows what because of XYZ mod.

In fact, I had posted well over a year ago SSM's from Ford telling their Shops that they will not warranty any repair where it's been found that the customer (1st or subsequent other) has modified As Built parameters or added S550 options (even though Ford parts) to a vehicle that originally didn't come with it.

It's going to get worse with the S650; no one wants to believe it, but trust me - people aren't going to be able to mod like they used to then "revert" software mods or remove items that affected PCM parameters on the newer Mustangs without the Ford software tracking and storing those changes come time for a "warranty" repair.

This is very true. I wonder if it is by design to stifle knowledge on the tech's part to keep pay low for said techs. Explain step by step with no real diagnosis knowledge necessary of how to fix a given issue presented by a dtc. I have seen it alot in my manufacturing career where to keep individual pay low a company prevents workers from learning new skills to keep wage demand as low as possible.

For the rest of you guys just forget about buying a warranty for an 8 year old Mustang and keep a few thousand dollars in reserve.

The problem you're going to have is finding a dealership to touch it at any price.

This is why I work on all my own cars and always have. Warranties are a ripoff on used vehicles, independent shops are sometimes too sketchy and dealers won't give you the time of day if you didn't buy the car from them in the first place. I had this very same issue when trying to find quotes for getting some engine work done on my car. I wanted to use ford peformance parts, specifically timing components, and everyone I talked to besides one shadetree shop including a ford dealer said they would only use oem replacement parts that were purchased by them, no customer supplied parts whatsoever for liability reasons.

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

It’s probably worth at least taking a good look at the port down there, perhaps there actually is some type of pass-through device installed. Probably still unrelated to the problems you are having, but maybe there really is something there. The dealer I used to work for would install “LoJack” on every new and used car and it used a pass through OBD connector. I’ve probably done hundreds of them.

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