Another blown ecoboost Engine

[Joe_Stang]

Sooo true... I tease the subaru guys all the time and they still try to say those EJ's are "reliable" I ihonestly dont understand why the resale on wrxs are so damn high. drove the last 2 gens and wasnt that impressed. Felt like i was in a corolla with a turbo literally (no sports car feel).

On to the blown motor deal. Threads like this are posted on every forum for every car ever made. Only way to truly judge reliability is to wait about 3 years and see where the platform sits. I've always said a properly tuned, properly cared for car will be the most reliable if treated right.

I agree and yes I was not impressed with any suburb's at all performance wise. My 15 v6 could beat new STI's all day long. The Ecoboost blows them away. They are behind in the performance category for sure. Only thing I like about them is there all wheel drive and they sound good with an exhaust.

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[paul123]

The hit they take on warranty work for less than 1% of engines is far less than the hit they take if they can't meet federal mandates. It's rolled into the cost of doing business.

The majority of cars will eventually be GTDI, so I'm sure they will figure it out going forward, and improve on the efficiency as well.

Are you still expecting the numbers to be less than 1% at 100,000 miles? There is speculation that LSPI can be triggered by soot / carbon buildup along with lower grade fuels / engine oils.

What about this ?

http://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-articles/replace-a-fuel-injector/
2. Turbo Troubles

During its evolution, the fuel injector has moved from the intake manifold to the combustion chamber.

... In turbocharged engines, dirty injectors can have a dangerous leaning effect that may lead to engine-damaging detonation. When the engine is under boost and at a higher rpm, it needs all the fuel the injectors can deliver. If the injectors are dirty and can’t keep up with the engine’s demands, the fuel mixture will lean out, causing detonation to occur.

 

[Kjewer1]

I have no idea what it's going to look like at 100k miles. It all depends on what the real mechanism behind LSPI actually is.

The first problem I have with that last quote though is that the engine needs all of the fuel the injectors can supply. Nothing could be further from the truth. Injection durations are so short (thanks in part to the very injection pressure), that there is plenty of time for more fuel flow. And WOT fueling is done in closed loop on these motors. Additionally, I have to assume that if closed loop control is asking for longer and longer injection times, and the ECU knows that the pressure is right, it should trigger something saying that the injector isn't flowing properly. A look at the DTC list might show something.

 

[paul123]

The hit they take on warranty work for less than 1% of engines is far less than the hit they take if they can't meet federal mandates. It's rolled into the cost of doing business.

The majority of cars will eventually be GTDI, so I'm sure they will figure it out going forward, and improve on the efficiency as well.

I would like to know what goes on behind the scenes with the CAFE and federal mandates. Is there a secret gas guzzler tax for the V6 and V8 cars?

 

[paul123]

http://www.fleetcarma.com/gas-mileage-car-manufacturer-paid-cafe-standards-fines/

Gas Mileage: Which car manufacturer was fined over $260 million?

What happens when a car manufacturer doesn’t meet the mpg standard?

They get fined. I’ll cover the way the fine is calculated in detail another time. The short answer is that the fine rate is $55 for each mpg that is missed multiplied by each vehicle sold.


http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...e-of-the-new-fuel-economy-regulations-feature

new Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) regulations that boosted the auto industry’s mandatory overall fleet mpg from 25.3 in 2010 to 34.1 by 2016.

Subaru WRX STI
17/23
24 actual CAFE
31 2011 target
39.4 2016 target

39.4 - 24 = 15 * 55 = $880

There is only 3 mpg difference between the Ecoboost and the V6, = 3 * $55. Not very much. Although equivalent fines in Europe and elsewhere may be much more substantial


edit: just noticed the articles are old, so the numbers may be off

 

[Asharus]

^this, I've known many of Subaru owners that blew there motors stock and modified. That platform probably has the most blown engines to this present day lol

still can't believe mine lasted for 80k with full bolt ons and E85, making 350 wheel and 370 ft/lbs. I may have sold it just on time...

Sooo true... I tease the subaru guys all the time and they still try to say those EJ's are "reliable" I ihonestly dont understand why the resale on wrxs are so damn high. drove the last 2 gens and wasnt that impressed. Felt like i was in a corolla with a turbo literally (no sports car feel).

i don't either, but i'm glad it held value when i sold it. and yes that's totally what they are.. glorified econoboxes.

 

[Kjewer1]

I'd like to try to figure out why LSPI is so pronounced at low rpm, but many times that BMEP is perfectly fine at higher speeds. I'm sure it has something to do with flame speed vs piston speed, or something similar, and could probably be calculated. You'd think the normal reduction in ignition timing would take care of that, but apparently something else is going on. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but 9 out of 10 threads in this section are advertisements, the prospect of a technical discussion seemed exciting.

 

[w3rkn]

and yet.... a missing OP with only 8 posts...

 

[Mustang2.3]

and yet.... a missing OP with only 8 posts...

I'm still here. and have been since the beginning of this forum under another username.

Based on the posts on this forum from people that have blown their engines (which I realize is a tiny subset of the general population), it appears as though Ford will not acknowledge an issue with the engine itself and overlook the fact that you modded of tuned it.


David

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[w3rkn]

I'm still here. In all honesty a lot of the conversation went beyond my pay grade.

Based on the posts on this forum from people that have blown their engines (which I realize is a tiny subset of the general population), it appears as though Ford will not acknowledge an issue with the engine itself and overlook the fact that you modded of tuned it.


David

OK, 9 posts.

Based on the posts from these forums, these people had modified cars.. and not all people's abilities are the same. I am not saying you didn't get a bad engine, I am just saying that I do not think you are giving us the full story of why/how it "exploded".

Did you have any problem when it was stock... how many miles before you modified the engine, how many miles on that mod, before it blew..?

Then.. what did Ford find as a reason, etc. What does Ford have to acknowledge..?

 

[Asharus]

His car was stock bro

 

[04SloSnake]

I'd like to try to figure out why LSPI is so pronounced at low rpm, but many times that BMEP is perfectly fine at higher speeds. I'm sure it has something to do with flame speed vs piston speed, or something similar, and could probably be calculated. You'd think the normal reduction in ignition timing would take care of that, but apparently something else is going on. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but 9 out of 10 threads in this section are advertisements, the prospect of a technical discussion seemed exciting.

I'm also curious about other manufacturers ability to protect their motors. My first DI turbo car was a 06 GTI that I bought new, which was the first year run of the 2.0T DI motor. I was young and uneducated at the time and I loved the 6th gear acceleration of that car. Since 2006 I have not heard about VW cars having a problem with LSPI, but maybe I just haven't seen it. Traded that car in for a MS3 with the notorious zoom, zoom, boom MZR and got educated quickly. It seemed to be the first platform that suffered from LSPI that I remember. Maybe VAG has something figured out the rest of us don't know.

 

[paul123]

I didn't realize that Turbo DI goes back to 2006. What did the boost gauge look like when you WOT in 6th gear ?

Theoretically you can get detonation in any car by lugging in tall gear and boost gets you a more powerful detonation, as there is a much bigger fuel / air charge. Super-Lugging ! :shocked:

I am not sure why DI makes things any different. If you google the topic, you get references to carbon buildup and hot-spots, but I thought DI was supposed to run cleaner and more efficient.

 

[04SloSnake]

I didn't realize that Turbo DI goes back to 2006. What did the boost gauge look like when you WOT in 6th gear ?

Theoretically you can get detonation in any car by lugging in tall gear and boost gets you a more powerful detonation, as there is a much bigger fuel / air charge. Super-Lugging ! :shocked:

I am not sure why DI makes things any different. If you google the topic, you get references to carbon buildup and hot-spots, but I thought DI was supposed to run cleaner and more efficient.

From what I remember, hitting full boost of 21-22psi by around 2500rpm. The baby K03 spooled very fast in that car.

 

[Kjewer1]

I don't know enough to say for sure, but that long ago, they may have been able to tune around it. Regulations get stricter every year.

Some time last year I was reading that all or most of the OEMs are in on a group project to get to the bottom of this. Makes sense since it's in all of their best interests to sort it out, and they are all subject to the same regulations. Not sure how reliable that source was, just an interesting side point.

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