Alignment suggestions with Camber plates

[dmann]

i have found some setting on the boards that line up with what I'm thinking but want to get your feedback before I get the alignment done. I have maximum motorsports camber plates. Also still using the stock wheels and tires.

I'm not a complete beginner to DE days but not crazy fast either. I have three days lined up soon and prob 3-4 in the spring. With that said, I do daily my car so I am wanting to get the most life out of my tires as possible.

I am thinking -2.2 camber in the front, -1.5 in the rear. Keep the castor the same and on the fence about the toe settings. I have read about using 0 toe front and rear giving the car a tendency to search around. I have have also read that adding about 1/16 up front helps with that. My end goal is to make sure the front and rear are balanced while maintaining the best wear for daily driving it too.

Suggestions please.

David

Sponsored

 

[Cdnspeed]

I daily on 2.5Fr 1.5R with 0 ToeFr and i think 1/16th in the rear, car doesn't wander and the tire wear seems to be not horrible so far

 

[NightmareMoon]

I daily on 2.5Fr 1.5R with 0 ToeFr and i think 1/16th in the rear, car doesn't wander and the tire wear seems to be not horrible so far

This is a good starting place. You could go /slightly/ more camber than that in the rear (1.7), and a smidge of toe out in the front would increase turn in speed, but for a combo daily track setup the above settings are pretty good, its almost exactly what I run too.

The rear toe in helps keep it from stepping out under power, and you need that much camber (2.5+) to keep the front tires happy. The rear tires dont need as much camber as the front. Usually 0.5-1.0 degree less.

 

[dmann]

thanks for the confirmation.

Can you guys explain what toe does in the front and rear? Why no run 0?

 

[BmacIL]

Nightmare is right on.

-2.5 front and -1.75 rear will be great.
0.00 front toe and 0.10-0.12 per side in the rear. Toe out (negative) in the front will make turn in sharper but can also make it too twitchy. It will also loose a tad bit of front grip in the middle and exit. Toe in in the front will mellow the turn in, but will typically improve exit grip a little. Try zero to start.

Rear toe generates a stabilizing force vector that helps you put power down. Always run a little bit of toe back there.

 

[dmann]

thanks for the explanation.

So, by "run a little bit of toe" yo mean out? and at .10-.12?

 

[Norm Peterson]

Some people do run zero toe up front. Something to consider is that zero toe on the alignment rack won't be zero toe when you're driving (because rolling drag tends to move the hub rearward, which induces a small amount of steering (probably in the toe-out direction for most cars).

Toe in is a stable condition whether front or rear.

Toe out is an unstable configuration, maybe think self-energizing as opposed to self-limiting. Up front, it makes the car twitchy requiring constant steering correction. Out back, it makes the car feel 'nervous' and ready to transition into full-blown oversteer. The car will 'rotate' much more readily at low speeds, which becomes way too easily at higher speeds.


Norm

 

[texasboy21]

Great thread and information!

 

[BmacIL]

thanks for the explanation.

So, by "run a little bit of toe" yo mean out? and at .10-.12?

By a little bit of toe in the rear, I most definitely mean toe in, not out. Toe out in the rear will make it very unstable. That 0.10-0.12 is that much toe in degrees per side in the rear.

 

[dmann]

Some people do run zero toe up front. Something to consider is that zero toe on the alignment rack won't be zero toe when you're driving (because rolling drag tends to move the hub rearward, which induces a small amount of steering (probably in the toe-out direction for most cars).

Toe in is a stable condition whether front or rear.

Toe out is an unstable configuration, maybe think self-energizing as opposed to self-limiting. Up front, it makes the car twitchy requiring constant steering correction. Out back, it makes the car feel 'nervous' and ready to transition into full-blown oversteer. The car will 'rotate' much more readily at low speeds, which becomes way too easily at higher speeds.


Norm

I completely get that. Thanks Norm!

 

[dmann]

Update..
I had the camber plates installed today and an alignment.
The rear camber would only come in at -1.48 LR and -1.4 RR with toe of .10. I didn't think anything about the back being fixed and not being able to adjust the camber. How do you get the 1.7+ as stated above?

The front was even worse, The most that could be achieved was these numbers -1.9 LF and -2.0 RF. The install seemed to be correct. Shouldn't I have been able to get more out of the maximum motorsports camber plates?

 

[BmacIL]

Update..
I had the camber plates installed today and an alignment.
The rear camber would only come in at -1.48 LR and -1.4 RR with toe of .10. I didn't think anything about the back being fixed and not being able to adjust the camber. How do you get the 1.7+ as stated above?

The front was even worse, The most that could be achieved was these numbers -1.9 LF and -2.0 RF. The install seemed to be correct. Shouldn't I have been able to get more out of the maximum motorsports camber plates?

The rear is absolutely adjustable. The bolt is in a slot in the subframe. People just don't know how to adjust it. You should be able to get more than -2.0. Were your front control arm bushings clocked? How much did the front drop?

 

[dmann]

The rear is absolutely adjustable. The bolt is in a slot in the subframe. People just don't know how to adjust it. You should be able to get more than -2.0. Were your front control arm bushings clocked? How much did the front drop?

I will have to inform the guy that did the work about the rear. How can I explain this to him?

I don't understand what you mean about the front control arm bushings clocked? Do you mind explaining?
Also, the front appears to be a little higher than expected. Should it drop or settle in?

 

[BmacIL]

I will have to inform the guy that did the work about the rear. How can I explain this to him?

I don't understand what you mean about the front control arm bushings clocked? Do you mind explaining?
Also, the front appears to be a little higher than expected. Should it drop or settle in?

Clocking bushings can be done on the alignment rack. See below:
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...hose-bushings-after-lowering-your-s550.44129/

As far as the rear camber adjustment goes, basically tell him that the inner point of the camber link is in a slot, so pushing it inboard will add more negative camber.

 

[dmann]

thanks bmac!

Sponsored