After 4 years FRPP2 install!

[BLUE DEVIL]

Is it possible the pinging has something to do with the injectors flow rate? Maybe upgrading to higher rate injectors (LU47 or larger) would provide more consistant fuel flow and keep the air fuel ratio more stable.

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[Kong76]

I'm not sure. If I did go that route would the Ford tune compensate for them?

I have noticed with this Ford tune my afr on the dash screen bounces between 13.8-14.3.

OEM it was tighter at 13.9-14.1

 

[Nate_V8]

I was considering the FRPP 2 or a custom tune. I didn't realize 91 caused so many pinging problems. I think I may go with ca custom tune now

 

[BLUE DEVIL]

I am almost certain Ford would not compensate or replace your injectors without cost. You can find a set of 47Lb injectors for between $250-290. Installation should not be expensive.

I have a very strong hunch that changing to the higher rate injectors will cure the ping, for both 91 and 93 octane, so much so, that I just picked up a set of 47LB and will have them installed along with my Power Pack 2 first week of June. But, I will have no feedback on the ping because I am installing all at the same time.

 

[Kong76]

I am almost certain Ford would not compensate or replace your injectors without cost. You can find a set of 47Lb injectors for between $250-290. Installation should not be expensive.

I have a very strong hunch that changing to the higher rate injectors will cure the ping, for both 91 and 93 octane, so much so, that I just picked up a set of 47LB and will have them installed along with my Power Pack 2 first week of June. But, I will have no feedback on the ping because I am installing all at the same time.

No I meant will the tune Ford provides for the Powerpack 2 kit handle the upgrade to 47s? Without needing a revision or whole new tune.

 

[Kong76]

I was considering the FRPP 2 or a custom tune. I didn't realize 91 caused so many pinging problems. I think I may go with ca custom tune now

For the record I no longer have any pinging or detonation that I can audibly hear like before within the first few days.

Either switching from Shell to Chevron was it or the car learned and pulled timing. The car still feels better than oem. Taking off is easier now and there is less engine braking in between shifts.

 

[BLUE DEVIL]

No I meant will the tune Ford provides for the Powerpack 2 kit handle the upgrade to 47s? Without needing a revision or whole new tune.

I am not positive about this, but I am pretty sure the injectors would not affect the tune.

Anybody else know the answer???

 

[Jo3f1sh]

According to this thread, Lund requires a new tune when upgrading injectors. I'd imagine it's no different for the FRPP, since the canned tune doesn't take upgraded injectors into account. I could almost guarantee you'd need a custom tune to use them.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/47lb-injectors.102898/

 

[Nate_V8]

How would power compare with the FRPP 2 and a lund tune? I know I'm not keen on the no lift shift from the complaints I've seen

 

[Kong76]

How would power compare with the FRPP 2 and a lund tune? I know I'm not keen on the no lift shift from the complaints I've seen

I would say the power will be a bit more, smoother and over all safer. This is what they are known for.

Update as of tonight. Messed around with some Mercedes looking suv thing with a pretty throaty exhaust. No clue what it was but said turbo. Anyways in the upper rpm range I heard pinging. I gave it 150 miles to figure itself out.

I will more than likely resort back to stock and not risk the motor. I'll save for a supercharger and be done.

 

[Nate_V8]

Wow. Pay that much money only to have pinging. That is unacceptable

 

[Dfeeds]

Pinging will be related to heat, quality of gas, and how lean the car is. It's hard to test the gas but watch your air temps. If they're really high look at the install and see if there's anywhere that's not sealing up very well. I'd also recommend buying some fuel injector cleaner like techron. Also make extra sure there's no tiny air leak from the install that may go unnoticed by the sensors.

Wow. Pay that much money only to have pinging. That is unacceptable

It's a tune that commands a set degree of timing. If the engine isn't capable of the amount of advance without causing pre detonation then that's not necessarily the fault of the tune (assuming the tune is for the engine and another doesn't ping). The only fault that can be directed at the tune is if there's no timing adjustment built into it. Many factors go into pinging. The ambient air temp, elevation, and humidity play a role. How many miles are on the engine? There could be some carbon build up on the pistons that are causing hot spots. Maybe the seal isn't right and warm air is blasting into the chamber. Combine the two above and the problem is worse. Even the exhaust could have an impact. A set up that has a poor vacuum effect could be causing too much exhaust fumes to remain in the combustion chamber for the next cycle. This will cause a lot of heat build up that doesn't ever just go away without retarding the timing. Higher octane will counteract this but it's more of a bandaid than a fix. Just saying it's "unacceptable" is a bit ignorant.

This is why people recommend a lot of data logs before getting on it. Just loading a canned tune and sending it can cause issues if it's not on a new or very internally clean engine. Two identically spec'd engines can behave very differently from each other.


OP, I would be weary of getting on it until you have the problem solved. Pinging may not cause a catastrophic failure but it's definitely not doing your internals any favors.

 

[accel]

watch your air temps

Well, this is where PP2 and 3 suck. Literally suck a lot of underhood hot air. I tried to optimize it as much as possible: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/power-pack-2-hot-air-intake.132973/ . This brings intake air temp pretty much to OEM intake levels. But this alone did not make much difference. And PP1 also pings.

I might try to wrap the intake into some sort of heat shield.

My observation is - while engine is cold - no detonation at all, then as it warms-up it comes into existence and the longer the drive is - the more detonation I hear. Even if it is a drive on a freeway where underhood air plays much less role as most of what comes into the intake is outside air.

Also make extra sure there's no tiny air leak from the install that may go unnoticed by the sensors.

This is interesting point. Makes me want to re-install PP2 again with special focus on leaks. I wonder what I can use to further eliminate leaks as a proof of concept initially.

Pinging will be related to heat, quality of gas

Quality of gas does matter - I can definitely tell Costco premium gas is the worst.

and how lean the car is

Also true - car runs reach during warm-ip and no pinging during that time.

There could be some carbon build up on the pistons that are causing hot spots.

I'm running engine cleaners once in a while, but no immediate results.

Even the exhaust could have an impact.

I have aftermarket one.

Pinging may not cause a catastrophic failure

It actually can if no attention is paid.

 

[Dfeeds]

Well, this is where PP2 and 3 suck. Literally suck a lot of underhood hot air. I tried to optimize it as much as possible: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/power-pack-2-hot-air-intake.132973/ . This brings intake air temp pretty much to OEM intake levels. But this alone did not make much difference. And PP1 also pings.

I might try to wrap the intake into some sort of heat shield.

My observation is - while engine is cold - no detonation at all, then as it warms-up it comes into existence and the longer the drive is - the more detonation I hear. Even if it is a drive on a freeway where underhood air plays much less role as most of what comes into the intake is outside air.



This is interesting point. Makes me want to re-install PP2 again with special focus on leaks. I wonder what I can use to further eliminate leaks as a proof of concept initially.



Quality of gas does matter - I can definitely tell Costco premium gas is the worst.




Also true - car runs reach during warm-ip and no pinging during that time.



I'm running engine cleaners once in a while, but no immediate results.



I have aftermarket one.



It actually can if no attention is paid.

Pinging in itself can mess up the piston rings and what not but won't cause anything to outright fail immediately. It's not like severe pre ignition where you can literally punch a hole through your piston. Semantics aside, they're both not good.

When the car is warm, does it always ping or after you've been sitting at a stoplight? I'm curious if it's just a matter of heat soak and a 3rd gear pull after driving for a bit (IATS drop) would still ping.



Aftermarket exhaust or stock should all be okay as long as there's no leaks or it's some cheap fab job that didn't use mandrel bending.



How it acts when cold is hard to use as a reference point. The timing table could be less aggressive until the car enters a closed loop state. It's also, as you said, running rich. Cylinder head temps will also be much lower and heat in the engine bay won't be that bad.

It's all just an unfortunate result of the inefficiency of the ICE. In a perfect world, you could have the air intake practically on the ground, in the front, and unrestricted.


I think I also remember reading that there's an option you can select, when setting up the tune, that there's something called "advanced adapt" that needs to be checked so the spark map can adjust to pinging.

 

[accel]

When the car is warm, does it always ping or after you've been sitting at a stoplight? I'm curious if it's just a matter of heat soak and a 3rd gear pull after driving for a bit (IATS drop) would still ping.

....


I think I also remember reading that there's an option you can select, when setting up the tune, that there's something called "advanced adapt" that needs to be checked so the spark map can adjust to pinging.

The car was more to ping after long drives such as freeways etc. Also, MT 5th gear rpms of a freeways are just around 2500 spot where pinging is the most pronounced. I once drove next to the concrete divider on a 5th on the freeway and it was consistent uninterrupted ping all the way all the time.

I did set "Octane adjust" option. It helps, but does not eliminate pinging completely.

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