Add track mode?

[Higgs Boson]

Yes I'm in charge of the pedal but track work is all about smooth inputs including throttle and if track mode makes the input uneven then obviously I will not be as smooth. Changing of the throttle map to something non-linear like what the track and sport mode give is not ideal for optimal power delivery on turn exit. For those of us who don't plan to get a tune its good to know...

My question is how do I keep the normal throttle mapping and disengage the traction control to the same level as the track mode? Would 1 click of the traction control toggle switch give that?

yes that's true but i think you need to drive it in both modes first....not sure why it seems like you are guessing at the effects.... have you driven your car before? the "effects" are not as pronounced as you seem to want to make it out to be.

again, the "linear" map you see in normal mode is linear compared to what ford decided is linear. what most people feel is that Normal = Sluggish and Sport = Linear. this is why I am saying "compared to what." in the end it is up to you to decide.

the Driver Demand table I mentioned has a HUGE impact on whether the Normal throttle table is actually linear. I'll post the DD table later and show you (unless someone else is on their tuning laptop and beats me to it.)

All I am saying is don't put all your eggs in the posted pic for Normal, Sport, and Wet. They are only the tip of the iceberg in how your engine responds to your pedal. I guess you didn't read the link I posted.

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[redline727]

yes that's true but i think you need to drive it in both modes first....not sure why it seems like you are guessing at the effects.... have you driven your car before? the "effects" are not as pronounced as you seem to want to make it out to be.

again, the "linear" map you see in normal mode is linear compared to what ford decided is linear. what most people feel is that Normal = Sluggish and Sport = Linear. this is why I am saying "compared to what." in the end it is up to you to decide.

the Driver Demand table I mentioned has a HUGE impact on whether the Normal throttle table is actually linear. I'll post the DD table later and show you (unless someone else is on their tuning laptop and beats me to it.)

All I am saying is don't put all your eggs in the posted pic for Normal, Sport, and Wet. They are only the tip of the iceberg in how your engine responds to your pedal. I guess you didn't read the link I posted.

I love how it says in the pic of the driver demand table, WARNING change at your own risk! Haha as if that shouldn't be considered for everything you change with the software. I really want to take a tuning class. I looked at a few just don't know if I want to spend the money when most are vehicle specific web classes. I need to find one that's like a basic tuning knowledge course.

 

[stoli]

My question is how do I keep the normal throttle mapping and disengage the traction control to the same level as the track mode? Would 1 click of the traction control toggle switch give that?

There's not enough difference between the modes/throttle mappings to really notice on the track. Input is more responsive in Sport/Track, but no less predictable.

 

[Budwise]

yes that's true but i think you need to drive it in both modes first....not sure why it seems like you are guessing at the effects.... have you driven your car before? the "effects" are not as pronounced as you seem to want to make it out to be.

Yes, in day to day driving I can't tell much difference from Track to Normal. My only track days I've had thus far were in Track mode but I didn't run any sessions in normal to feel the difference either. My tires will know the difference before my butt dyno though, that's why I'm interested and I'd like to understand more the differences.

I'm reading the article you posted, just digesting it since its a lot of info.

 

[Higgs Boson]

I love how it says in the pic of the driver demand table, WARNING change at your own risk! Haha as if that shouldn't be considered for everything you change with the software. I really want to take a tuning class. I looked at a few just don't know if I want to spend the money when most are vehicle specific web classes. I need to find one that's like a basic tuning knowledge course.

books..... Greg Banish and Dan Maslic are pretty prominent I guess. There are tons out there. Google EFI Tuning books.

 

[Higgs Boson]

Yes, in day to day driving I can't tell much difference from Track to Normal. My only track days I've had thus far were in Track mode but I didn't run any sessions in normal to feel the difference either. My tires will know the difference before my butt dyno though, that's why I'm interested and I'd like to understand more the differences.

I'm reading the article you posted, just digesting it since its a lot of info.

your tires won't know the difference because you control the throttle. It's not 100% throttle at 10% pedal. if you feel like there is too much power you ease back on the pedal. Sport on the Mustang is less aggressive than Normal on a Ferrari.... Like I said, it is all relative. Sport is not going to shoot you into the trees, lol. You are the first person I've ever heard of with this concern and tons of Mustangs are tracked regularly.

 

[Higgs Boson]

These are the tables that are directly related to Throttle. Notice there is a lot that affects your pedal's relationship with the throttle blade. The Normal, Sport, and Wet tables are only there to allow changes to the modes without altering tables that affect the other modes.

 

[Higgs Boson]

This is the driver demand table. Notice that going from 50% pedal/throttle to 50% pedal / 60% throttle only adds 30-40 ft-lbs of torque. It is only designed to make the throttle feel more responsive.

 

[redline727]

These are the tables that are directly related to Throttle. Notice there is a lot that affects your pedal's relationship with the throttle blade. The Normal, Sport, and Wet tables are only there to allow changes to the modes without altering tables that affect the other modes.

So much is taken on faith when you're paying for a tune from some one. Didn't you say that's why you started teaching yourself to tune? I would love to really know how much of this stuff is altered with the standard "bolt on" email tune you get from most tuners. And same goes for custom dyno tuning. You can't help but wonder how much time is saved by the tuner really not messing with some of this stuff bc the average customer has no idea what can actually be done. Or if you're tuner to try and explain to your customers why you're worth their money bc you actually spend time on stuff like this. When they have no idea what you're talking about haha.

 

[redline727]

This is the driver demand table. Notice that going from 50% pedal/throttle to 50% pedal / 60% throttle only adds 30-40 ft-lbs of torque. It is only designed to make the throttle feel more responsive.

What decides the torque value after a modification is made when more torque becomes available to use? Do you manually change the torque number and it automatically fills in the values? Or you have to do it all manually? Sorry, I'm very inquisitive, I better just start looking for books or I'll have to start paying you to teach me haha

 

[Higgs Boson]

So much is taken on faith when you're paying for a tune from some one. Didn't you say that's why you started teaching yourself to tune? I would love to really know how much of this stuff is altered with the standard "bolt on" email tune you get from most tuners. And same goes for custom dyno tuning. You can't help but wonder how much time is saved by the tuner really not messing with some of this stuff bc the average customer has no idea what can actually be done. Or if you're tuner to try and explain to your customers why you're worth their money bc you actually spend time on stuff like this. When they have no idea what you're talking about haha.

Most of this stuff is not part of a normal tune. Getting the AF ratio and spark timing are the big parts. The newer torque based systems require more changes but once you know what you're doing then it's not that bad. Everything else is definitely more personal preference than necessity.

What decides the torque value after a modification is made when more torque becomes available to use? Do you manually change the torque number and it automatically fills in the values? Or you have to do it all manually? Sorry, I'm very inquisitive, I better just start looking for books or I'll have to start paying you to teach me haha

There is a torque model that is created by Ford to create a map or guideline as to how much power is made at any given load or RPM, etc. The model can handle pretty much any naturally aspirated deviation but with FI it can close the throttle as power levels begin to overcome the model and the ECM tries to keep it within the model. Part of the tuning must allow the throttle to remain open to even begin to start tuning AF ratio and spark. The torque model can be remodeled if needed.

Often the Driver Demand table is left stock or close to stock, especially with Fords as it is only a Demand table. Fords switch to a "full throttle" mode after a certain throttle percentage and rule out the Driver Demand table. GM applications use the 100% row of the DD table for WOT so it has to be changed quite a bit in some cases.

 

[redline727]

[MENTION=19063]Higgs Boson[/MENTION] So much to learn, thank you for explaining all of this to me. I'm going to look into some books. Wonder if there is an EFI tuning for dummies book? Lol

 

[Higgs Boson]

just start anywhere. big thing is just start.

 

[Sim.S550]

I say wait for the track key option and it will probably give you that function

Wait... Theres a track key coming out???

 

[Chameleon]

Wait... Theres a track key coming out???

Yes. 10th to 11th post down

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36968&highlight=track+key

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