Aces IV additive/octane enhancer

[Hazmat SRT]

He makes a very valid point on the catch cans. We run them on the Hemis since the oil that's being recovered from the PCV gets sucked into the intake and migrates down to coat the valves and pistons over time. Makes some nice hot spots on the piston crowns and creates knock.

Hello pulled timing.

Love this guy's delivery. He's funny as hell.

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[Roh92cp]

Hi Shawn,

I specifically joined this forum to be able to comment on this thread. I've worked closely with Brian over the last two years as I've begun using Aces IV and the line of QB products that BND produces. I'm strong advocate of the benefits of using BND materials and have found them to be of the highest quality.

I had a discussion with Brian this afternoon while on a long drive from Grand Rapids to Auburn Hills and we discussed your specific situation. Based on your knock counts we are both of the opinion that Aces IV doesn't have sufficient knock resistance to deal with the high levels of boost and timing that you're running (or that the PCM is trying to run).

I'm sure that Brian will recommend Aces IV-P to you which is more of a race formula specifically made for high horsepower boosted applications. Aces IV is more suitable for N/A motors than run up to the 12:1 compression range while Aces IV-P handles everything above that. When tuning Hellcats, built 392s and 426s, the tuner will almost always use Aces IV-P to get the most performance.

I can understand your frustration with respect to why knock counts weren't decreasing and I have to admit that we're both baffled by this. Typically, in Hemi applications that are running boost, the car needs to be retuned on 93 + Aces since the AF:R gets a bit fat. The fact that you're seeing no change in knock counts indicates that the Aces standard formula isn't up to the task. While I'm very familiar with the modern Hemi, I'm the furthest thing from an expert on the Coyote (although I have a lot of respect for the quality of the engine and what it can handle). 1-2 counts of knock on my stock 392 under boost would see the rings lands shatter.

Where I want to commend you is for not dismissing Aces as snake oil and instead choosing to work with Brian towards an effective solution. I should mention that I have no skin in the game, don't work for BND and don't get discounts for touting his stuff on forums.

Oh and I respect ALL muscle cars....even if I choose to drive Mopars. In my younger years I drag raced two SN95 Mustangs and loved them.

I look forward to seeing your issue resolved with Aces IV-P and hearing your results when you have a chance to try it.

Cheers,

Andy

I know Brian is passionate about his stuff and that's what attracted me to him and his products. Seemed like a quality product above anything I've seen. Of course I was dissapointed when I found lack of knock resistance with ACES when I did my testing. Brian new we were Supercharged and he new we were only looking for a modest octane or knock bump. ACES-P seems unreasonable to me to run on a daily basis since it's mix is much higher 1 oz to 1 gal. I'm hoping Brian can come up with something more reasonable to run everyday with octane bump as advertised. I talked with Brian yesterday and he really is commited to figuring this out for us.

Thanks will do.

So how is this for timing, found a new video on youtube for all.

Good stuff, thanks for posting this.

He makes a very valid point on the catch cans. We run them on the Hemis since the oil that's being recovered from the PCV gets sucked into the intake and migrates down to coat the valves and pistons over time. Makes some nice hot spots on the piston crowns and creates knock.

Hello pulled timing.

Love this guy's delivery. He's funny as hell.

Me and the other 2 guys who tested ACES run the best catch can available for Whipple's, it's the UPR setup. I check my intake 2 weeks ago and it's dry no oil issue there.

 

[F1scamp]

:lol:


Have you tried the 3.5" with 93 only. If so do you recal the knock value.

As far as ACES doubling the strength, Brain of BND says it adds lubricity and cooling affect to the combustion chamber and cylinder walls that can help. I've testing doubling and so has db252 without getting any reduced knock. I'm looking forward to Brian's working with us to increase the knock resistance of his ACES for us. I will be testing it along with db252, 4orceFed and Jmeo.

Well i ran the tank down till it said 10miles to empty, filled it with 93. Drove it another 80miles, then threw the scanner on and datalogged a couple pulls. To my surprise there was no postive knock, and it actually had -1,-2 at the top of third. 3.5", longtubes, no kitties.

 

[Hazmat SRT]

I know Brian is passionate about his stuff and that's what attracted me to him and his products. Seemed like a quality product above anything I've seen. Of course I was dissapointed when I found lack of knock resistance with ACES when I did my testing. Brian new we were Supercharged and he new we were only looking for a modest octane or knock bump. ACES-P seems unreasonable to me to run on a daily basis since it's mix is much higher 1 oz to 1 gal. I'm hoping Brian can come up with something more reasonable to run everyday with octane bump as advertised. I talked with Brian yesterday and he really is commited to figuring this out for us


Good stuff, thanks for posting this.


Me and the other 2 guys who tested ACES run the best catch can available for Whipple's, it's the UPR setup. I check my intake 2 weeks ago and it's dry no oil issue there.

I'm interested to see what he comes up with. The commitment to get you a good product is there and I've seen Brian does this continuously during the time that I've known him. That's the benefit of working with someone who wants you to have a good result and has the technical know how to make it happen. It's about the intent to have a long term relationship.

I definitely understand the disappointment and that IV-P isn't a cost effective alternative. I think part of this is learning the dynamics of the Coyote and how it's different from the Hemi and LS. In Hemi applications with lower boost (say 6-9 psi), Aces still has an effect. I don't know of too many people on the Charger and Challenger forums who are running big boost (comparatively) like you guys are.

I'm sure there's a solution for you. We just need to do something a bit different. Thanks for being patient and hanging in there.

 

[Hazmat SRT]

On a related note, can you guys tell me a little bit more about how your cars (the ones attempting to run Aces) are tuned?

Are these custom dyno tunes or canned tunes from the manufacturer?
Are you using handheld or standalone systems?
Can you adjust fuel and timing tables manually?
Are you using fuel pump boosters, upgraded pumps or dual pumps?
Can you data log injector duty cycles? If so, are these close to 90% or higher in situations where knock occurs?

Just trying to get a little bit more background and gain some understanding.

 

[Hazmat SRT]

Me and the other 2 guys who tested ACES run the best catch can available for Whipple's, it's the UPR setup. I check my intake 2 weeks ago and it's dry no oil issue there.

I'm familiar with UPR and they do make a very good product. I'm glad it's working for you. Imagine what that intake would look like without it? Not good!

 

[Roh92cp]

I'm interested to see what he comes up with. The commitment to get you a good product is there and I've seen Brian does this continuously during the time that I've known him. That's the benefit of working with someone who wants you to have a good result and has the technical know how to make it happen. It's about the intent to have a long term relationship.

I definitely understand the disappointment and that IV-P isn't a cost effective alternative. I think part of this is learning the dynamics of the Coyote and how it's different from the Hemi and LS. In Hemi applications with lower boost (say 6-9 psi), Aces still has an effect. I don't know of too many people on the Charger and Challenger forums who are running big boost (comparatively) like you guys are.

I'm sure there's a solution for you. We just need to do something a bit different. Thanks for being patient and hanging in there.

Whatever Brian comes up with for us here, it must do 2 things for people to continue to buy it. One is it has to increase the knock resistance by at least 3-5 points in my opinion, and 2 must be offered at the price of ACES IV. Brian sold us ACES IV knowing what we were running for engine Supercharger and boost levels. 10-12 psi is not unreasonable here, in fact some can run those Boost levels on 93 with little to no knock, so ACES only had to do a little bit to help. We weren't asking for a lot. ACES IV was sold advertising 102 octane, we aren't getting that and looks like we won't get that with ACES P either, but I'm not sure. So is this fair to us, no! Is Brian working towards a solution yes! I am happy about his continued efforts, but this solution needs to comment in a a price point we were sold ACES IV for all the reasons above.

On a related note, can you guys tell me a little bit more about how your cars (the ones attempting to run Aces) are tuned?

Are these custom dyno tunes or canned tunes from the manufacturer?
Are you using handheld or standalone systems?
Can you adjust fuel and timing tables manually?
Are you using fuel pump boosters, upgraded pumps or dual pumps?
Can you data log injector duty cycles? If so, are these close to 90% or higher in situations where knock occurs?

Just trying to get a little bit more background and gain some understanding.

Mine and the 2 others who are testing and Jamie are whipple house calibrations.

These are calibrations are developed by a Ford Engineer, the same one who does the Ford performance Supercharger Calibrations. The are based off the stock PCM and modified and tested by Whipple.

Whipple calibrations can only be changed by whipple, and they don't do that for individuals. The are however Maf load based fueling tables that basically controlling fueling very accurately through load vs rpm. More complex than that but I'm sure you already know this.

Dave, Jay and myself are not using fuel boosters, Jamie is.

I can see and log injector duty cycle, however the Whipple 72lb injectors would not be anywhere near maxed at out power levels for sure. We are lol just under or near the 700 whp range and even the stock 56lb injectors don't max at that power level, but come close to the 90%.

My lambda was .75 ish during my testing and never full short not went to rich.

I also reviewed Dave and Jays runs and their Lambdas were the same.

 

[BDMACH1]

I kept thinking that I've heard about this stuff somewhere, then I remembered where I heard about it at. I was at the racetrack last year and a few guys were talking about it, think the guy who makes this additive is local to me. Does anyone know where they are located??

 

[Roh92cp]

I kept thinking that I've heard about this stuff somewhere, then I remembered where I heard about it at. I was at the racetrack last year and a few guys were talking about it, think the guy who makes this additive is local to me. Does anyone know where they are located??

The website address is Ohio.

 

[itzqwk]

I bought the aces also with a whipple 2.9- id1000s custom tune 719 whp 602 wtq full exhaust no fuel boosters and dc nowhere near maxed out..:ford:

 

[BDMACH1]

I'll see if I can track down where he is. If he's close, maybe I'll reach out to him and see if I can help with anything to help develop something that we might be able to use. The car is tuned on E85 at the moment with a little more boost then some of you guys are running. Thinking about ordering a larger pulley so that maybe I can get away with running some pump gas in it for trips etc...

 

[rio16]

Going to test mine as well when I get my N Gauge set up. I am running 3.625 w 91 and ACE IV. I will send my logs to Dave and hope i see good results.

 

[BDMACH1]

I did talk to Brian this morning, He's 20 minutes from me. Going to try and get with him and see if he can come up with something...

 

[Roh92cp]

Going to test mine as well when I get my N Gauge set up. I am running 3.625 w 91 and ACE IV. I will send my logs to Dave and hope i see good results.

Great Rio, looking forward to your results as well.

I did talk to Brian this morning, He's 20 minutes from me. Going to try and get with him and see if he can come up with something...

That is really good news that you will be able to meet up with him. This may be best chance we have with Brian to come up with a viable solution. Really looking forward to your progress on this

 

[Roh92cp]

On another note I reached out to Dustin Whipple about the calibration and how it handles octane changes or knock resistance form tank to tank. It's been siad that the knock logic may have a long term learning strategy that needs time on a new octane gas for the sensitivity to b affected. Also I think Brian has said with ACES 100 miles need to be put on before it will have full affect. Well as far a Whipple calibration Dustin said there is no long term knock logic that would keep the system from reacting immediately to higher octane or knock resistance.

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