350 to 350R

[Tomster]

Al, we have both been around the car hobby for quite some time so I certainly respect your opinion but with all due respect the driving experience for me personally is completely different. Knowing some of the instructors in Sebring from previous events I asked them their thoughts on the R compared to the GT350 and they confirmed my thoughts as well.

For me there is a lot more than just the Cup 2 and the carbon fiber wheels that make such a difference on these cars.

As soon as I fire up my R model I experience a totally different exhaust note compared to my GT350 based on the fact that these cars have no resonators which in addition to an outstanding exhaust note it is a nice weight savings as well. Of course I only drive the R model in Sport Mode as I cannot get enough of the wicked sound of this engine at 4500 RPM and above. I have not hit the magic 8250 RPM yet but can only imagine based on the sound below that level.

Once the car is rolling and warmed up not only do the CF wheels feel more nimble and lighter than the alloy wheels but once I start some spirited driving the wider wheels front and back come into play.

Of course we all know the spring rates on the R models are 24% stiffer than the Track or Tech Pack cars so combine the larger/stickier tires, lighter and larger wheels along with a car that weighs at least ~90 pounds lighter than a Track Pack car so it all adds up. The weight savings on the front CF wheels alone are 30# with the rears being 28# lighter.

I ordered my R's without A/C, radio, speakers and that reduces the weight of the car by 21# and with no carpet underlay I save another 5# in weight.

Not sure what the weight savings are with the removal of the tire inflator kit, no carpet in the trunk, exhaust resonators deleted and having the back seats removed and replaced with a lightweight cover does to the overall weight but suggestion it will also be quite helpful.

For you all these differences may not mean much and I certainly respect that but for me the sound and overall feel of this car is completely different than my GT350 and that is based on owning and driving one of each.

Maybe some fellow R model owners will provide their thoughts and can either confirm my feelings or tell me that I am full of crap!:headbonk:

Nobody thinks you are full of crap Harry.

350 resonator delete, cup 2 tires, 6gr wheels, and then at that point you are splitting hairs. An instructor may see the difference, but I don't think I would.

Your opinion is very respected and nobody is going to call you out on this. There is a difference, but change the factors above, and that difference narrows considerably. ;)

Don't change your opinion because it is respected and appreciated.

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[Zitrosounds]

I originally had a 2016 Shadow Black (no stripe) Track Pack, and I sold it to get a 2016 R; which I was able to special order/spec.

For me, it was a combination of things, regarding the switch:

- I'm not a track person...yet. So, that didn't come into the equation.
- I LOVE the rarity of the car! My R is 1 of 45 DIB Rs built with the Electronics Package in 2016. And, I have black OTT Stripes; which I later found out was a 1 year only option (DIB is not available anymore, and the black stripes weren't an option on DIB Rs for 2015). And, given that there were some Rs build without stripes and some with white stripes, I now know that my car is 1 of less than 45 - VERY cool!
- Finally, I know people will say they are the same car...to me, they are not. I DD my R, and I DD'd my Track Pack Previously. They are 2 different animals entirely. Again, we can agree to disagree, but I put almost 1,500 miles on my Track Pack before I sold it, and I have almost 2,500 miles on my R as of this week.

I feel confident in my opinions :ford:

I agree! However, I don't think those commenting here are saying the cars are the same. Rather, what I believe is being said is the performance gap can be closed with the above said mods. The GT350's are rare and the R's even more so, for a reason.

 

[Bossing]

That's the difference for you Harry... and Ruben too. I'm talking about track-related metrics. Them R tires with lighter wheels will narrow that lap time delta. If Randy is 3 secs faster at MRLS with the R... then put the Cup2s and I bet he can cut that difference in half. Add the CF wheels and it'll obviously help as well. You guys make it sound like the R vs. non-R is worlds apart. It's not. Tires make a big difference in performance & feel.

For my personal example, I went from MPSS to Cup2s on my Z06 and my lap times decreased at least 5 secs at all 3 tracks I go to. Those Cup 2's are literally like R-comps and the grip, balance, handling, and ability to put the power down is significant enough vs. street rated MPSS. This is a KEY factor.

Anyway we will all agree to disagree on this... I rely on real world results and feedback. At the track where cars are being pushed to high limits. ;)

And at 8/10ths and higher... do that on the street and you either go to jail or wind up hurting yourself or someone else.

Plus I didn't say they are not different at all because they are different of course. We all know some select hardware & tuning improvements on the R is better. But in the end it's still the same engine/power, same trans, same diff, same chassis at a minimum. My point is they are not in the opposite ends of the spectrum.

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Exaaaaacctly! As stated below... staying within context like Tom & Zitro understands.

Nobody thinks you are full of crap Harry.

350 resonator delete, cup 2 tires, 6gr wheels, and then at that point you are splitting hairs. An instructor may see the difference, but I don't think I would.

Your opinion is very respected and nobody is going to call you out on this. There is a difference, but change the factors above, and that difference narrows considerably. ;)

Don't change your opinion because it is respected and appreciated.

I agree! However, I don't think those commenting here are saying the cars are the same. Rather, what I believe is being said is the performance gap can be closed with the above said mods. The GT350's are rare and the R's even more so, for a reason.

 

[PP0001]

Spot on - couldn't have said it better myself! :ford:

I find it very interesting after a couple of GT350/GT350R model owners/enthusiasts provide their own account as to how each of the GT350 and GT350R's respond to them respectively with each of these enthusiasts coming up with pretty much the same conclusion after which time a non GT350R model owner tells us how it really is.

Sounds reasonable to me!

With respect to the insight and lecture on the importance of light weight wheels and sticky tires making a big difference on the track, I had no idea and guess I still have lots to learn after getting on a track for the first time some 33 years ago.

Time for an extended break and wish safe travels to everyone this long weekend!

:first: :ford: :first:

 

[Zitrosounds]

That's the difference for you Harry... and Ruben too. I'm talking about track-related metrics. Them R tires with lighter wheels will narrow that lap time delta. If Randy is 3 secs faster at MRLS with the R... then put the Cup2s and I bet he can cut that difference in half. Add the CF wheels and it'll obviously help as well. You guys make it sound like the R vs. non-R is worlds apart. It's not. Tires make a big difference in performance & feel.

For my personal example, I went from MPSS to Cup2s on my Z06 and my lap times decreased at least 5 secs at all 3 tracks I go to. Those Cup 2's are literally like R-comps and the grip, balance, handling, and ability to put the power down is significant enough vs. street rated MPSS. This is a KEY factor.

Anyway we will all agree to disagree on this... I rely on real world results and feedback. At the track where cars are being pushed to high limits. ;)

And at 8/10ths and higher... do that on the street and you either go to jail or wind up hurting yourself or someone else.

Plus I didn't say they are not different at all because they are different of course. We all know some select hardware & tuning improvements on the R is better. But in the end it's still the same engine/power, same trans, same diff, same chassis at a minimum. My point is they are not in the opposite ends of the spectrum.

---

Exaaaaacctly! As stated below... staying within context like Tom & Zitro understands.

THIS! Complete other side of the spectrum. Very different and an actual race car with unique custom made parts.

 

[Bossing]

Hey it's all good... this has been beaten to death so move on. ;)

Different strokes for different folks with different opinions but the same passion. We're all GT350/R enthusiasts and that's what we can all agree on. That's the best thing.

Back to the topic on hand... I think many if not all would upgrade to an R anyway especially IF these cars sold at sticker.

And I'd bet a big reason is in this order:

1) Cachet (just because it is an R)

1.5) Cachet (just because it is an R)

2) You are tracking more than 5-6 times a season (this is a track only car)

3) Whatever else you want to add...​

 

[machsmith]

Because R = Bad to the bone!

 

[ohtobbad]

I have an R, I wasn't planning on tracking it, but
I did and now I am addicted
but someone above said Randy P changed tires and cut
1.5 seconds off the 3 second difference.
Anyone who has ever raced knows.
1.5 seconds is still an eternity on a race track.
this transfer to any level.

I have driven a regular 350, but never tracked it.
TO be honest I know how close they are, but in feel and reality
they feel like two completely different cars.

To the biggest point, I believe anyone who got a gt350 of any version
has something very special, Ford hit a home run with this car and as
enthusiast we have to believe the future looks bright

 

[Jb350]

The funny thing is people talking about how different the 2 cars feel but have never taken either to the track. On the street the only difference you are feeling is the firmer suspension and stickier tires. The placebo effect is real!!! Lol. On the street, it's impossible to even begin to get near the limit, and the limit is where you'll start to feel where the R is better (which it is) but like Bossing said, with the same wheels and tires the difference would be marginal at best. I'd love to have an R over my 350, but I'd also be just as happy using that money to fund my trips to the track and pay for consumables. Bottom line is, if you have the disposable income BUY ONE, no question. On track, where these cars really shine you can't go wrong with either

 

[machsmith]

1.5 seconds per lap at 10 laps= way behind.

 

[Voodooo]

I agree every article states, it has the "specialness" as Matt Farra loves to say. I guess, with carbonfiber wheels and cup2 tires on the street...
1) makes me nervous of potholes and things
2) dollars and cents per mile on cup2 on street

Do what I did and get Forgeline GA1R open lug wheels 11x19 and run pilot sport cup 2's.
They are just 1 pound heavier then the R carbon fiber wheels. And cost less.
I also removed a lot of junk weight and weigh less than an R.

Long tube headers and catless X pipe.
R rear seat delete.
Forgeline wheels and psc2 tires.
Trunk junk.
Recaro profi spa carbon fiber seats soon.
Carbon fiber drive shaft.

I also added.
Vorshlag camber plates.
R front and rear springs.
R rear swaybar.
R splitter.
R calipers.
Cortex front and rear lower control arm bearings.
Ford performance - differential bushings, IRS cradle bushings, toe link bearings.
BMR toe link arms.
BMR vertical links.
SRP pedals.
ARH long tubes and off road X pipe (my favorite mod) sounds awesome!
Lund 100 octane tune.
Ford performance dual oil catch cans.
MGW shifter. (Still waiting. Any day now)

 

[Superdog]

I'd not even contemplate this move. I just don't get it.

To me, the GT350 is a perfect all arounder.

I want the back seats, radio, AC etc.

And I realize I'm a layman, but the performance differences to a guy like me are non existent.

 

[Voodooo]

I'd not even contemplate this move. I just don't get it.

To me, the GT350 is a perfect all arounder.

I want the back seats, radio, AC etc.

And I realize I'm a layman, but the performance differences to a guy like me are non existent.

Some people can't leave well enough alone. It's an addiction.

 

[Superdog]

Some people can't leave well enough alone. It's an addiction.

Well, I can surely empathize with that. :cheers:

 

[J_Maher_AMG]

The funny thing is people talking about how different the 2 cars feel but have never taken either to the track. On the street the only difference you are feeling is the firmer suspension and stickier tires. The placebo effect is real!!! Lol. On the street, it's impossible to even begin to get near the limit, and the limit is where you'll start to feel where the R is better (which it is) but like Bossing said, with the same wheels and tires the difference would be marginal at best. I'd love to have an R over my 350, but I'd also be just as happy using that money to fund my trips to the track and pay for consumables. Bottom line is, if you have the disposable income BUY ONE, no question. On track, where these cars really shine you can't go wrong with either

Ehh there are more differences than that IMO. The lighter wheels and tires don't only improve acceleration and cornering grip on track, but you will certainly notice differences in steering response at any speed. Likewise, although the spring rates are higher, with the wheels being so significantly lighter, the suspension can react much more quickly. A driver can notice how the car reacts to bumps, potholes, dips, etc. at any speed and don't need to be driven at the limit to notice and appreciate the difference. I also believe that the "placebo" affect does make a difference honestly. For example, you could drive a Subaru WRX or a Ferrari along the same road at the same speed, no doubt any individual would be more mentally satisfied and pleased with the Ferarri. Obviously the difference we are talking about here is nowhere near as drastic, my example was purely to make a point. But, there certainly is a mental bonus, whether real or physical or not, to owning something that is deemed "rare" by most standards, at least for me. It takes an already very special car, and turns it up a notch.

Absolutely agree that either car is amazing, with the shining star no doubt being the 5.2L FPC V8. It is truly a supercar engine IMO that is exotic and and truly, truly special. We are all very lucky for having either incredible machine in our stables

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