Atlas1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
523
Reaction score
592
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 TRD Pro
Trunk opening and visibility are not $13k+ advantage of value for the Mustang.
i would push back on this part. If the trunk opening prevents me from using the car in a way i need to and i cant see out of it, then the price doesn't factor in. the camaro is no doubt a solid track performer but if i cant use it as an everyday car and i'm not comfortable, nor can i see out of it, then it wouldn't matter to me what they charge for it. there is much more to a vehicle purchase than lap times unless your're buying something strictly for track use.





Advertisement

 

Hattrick

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2014
Messages
127
Reaction score
27
Location
Valencia,Ca
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT350, 2018 GT A10.
The camaro's big problem is impracticality, you can see out of it and the trunk space is non existent. If you want al lthat, just buy a vette.

The stang is a pony car you can live with, the camaro is no.
Sorry front view out of a C7 windshield is way larger then my Mustangs own both
 

Schwerin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Messages
2,928
Reaction score
1,480
Location
Philly
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang BULLITT
He started off by saying the mission of this car is to balance street manners (bullitt) and track performance (Shelby). His conclusion is that the car is a missed opportunity because it slides in between those very two cars. That’s exactly what Ford said it was going to be. I get the feeling he is a big fan of the styling of the bullitt and not the Mach, and sort of shaped his conclusion to fit.

I find it ironic that some of the interviews talked about the Mach1 being inspired by the Hi-Po EcoBoost package as in a previous post of mine I mentioned that this car would be much more logical to call it a Hi-Po GT than a Mach1 or a Boss.
 

Schwerin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Messages
2,928
Reaction score
1,480
Location
Philly
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang BULLITT
No, and there likely won't be from this particular event. This was a press event that allowed the cars to be driven on the street and track. They were not permitted to equip them with the telemetry hardware need to provide such metrics. I suspect we'll see those in a few weeks though, if history is any indicator.

I agree with this assessment. The GM fanboys so want the Mach 1 to be "the answer" to the 1LE-equipped SS trims, but that was not what this Mach 1 was ever engineered to be.
Which IMO is why they should have used a NA version of the GT500's 5.2L.

As much of a Ford Fanboy I am the fact GM is killing them in bang for buck and has been for a few years now is really annoying me. If it wasn't for the Camaro visibility, I'd be sitting in one right now. I really feel like Ford just got LUCKY that the Camaro has its visibility reputation/issues.

I can get a GT with a handling package coming close to but not quite beating a SS with handling package because you can argue things like visibility, comfort, utility, some other points. But if a 57K Mach1 with HP can't easily beat a 44K SS 1LE around the track and down the strip, then WTF is Ford doing?
 

Rocketman

Keep it stupid, stupid
Joined
Jun 13, 2017
Messages
262
Reaction score
157
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
2017 GT PPPPPPP
If you load up a premium GT PP1 and a premium Mach 1 (no handling pack) the difference is about $3,800. I'd pay that to get the Tremec, unique front end, coolers and the rest of the Mach 1 extras. (that said the loaded up GT is about $54,000 and I'm sure you could get it for quite a few thousand less, hard to find a discount on the Machs) but still.... I'll take the Mach 1
My argument wasn't comparing PP1 to the Mach 1, but the SS 1LE to the Mach 1 which comes in significantly cheaper. I agree that if you're going to load up a PP1 then you might as well step up to a Mach 1.
 

Atlas1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
523
Reaction score
592
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 TRD Pro
Which IMO is why they should have used a NA version of the GT500's 5.2L.

As much of a Ford Fanboy I am the fact GM is killing them in bang for buck and has been for a few years now is really annoying me. If it wasn't for the Camaro visibility, I'd be sitting in one right now. I really feel like Ford just got LUCKY that the Camaro has its visibility reputation/issues.

I can get a GT with a handling package coming close to but not quite beating a SS with handling package because you can argue things like visibility, comfort, utility, some other points. But if a 57K Mach1 with HP can't easily beat a 44K SS 1LE around the track and down the strip, then WTF is Ford doing?
WTF is Ford doing? Look up sales numbers for the mustang and camaro.....you’ll find the answer.
 

Schwerin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Messages
2,928
Reaction score
1,480
Location
Philly
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang BULLITT
WTF is Ford doing? Look up sales numbers for the mustang and camaro.....you’ll find the answer.
I don't give a shit about sales (and I say that as a share holder). I care about the money in my wallet, and getting the most fun for my money. The only thing that kept me from getting a SS 1LE was visibility, and the only thing that kept me out of a Challenger 1320 was my love of dark green.
 

Atlas1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Messages
523
Reaction score
592
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 TRD Pro
I don't give a shit about sales (and I say that as a share holder). I care about the money in my wallet, and getting the most fun for my money. The only thing that kept me from getting a SS 1LE was visibility, and the only thing that kept me out of a Challenger 1320 was my love of dark green.
You asked what is Ford doing. They give a shit about sales. They don’t care if you do. You care if one car is a couple seconds quicker around a track. So does gm. And because their focus was there and not on the overall package, they are going to be out of the market sooner rather than later.
Ford has accurately figured out what car to produce that makes them money. The camaro, despite its ability to turn faster lap times, does not sell. And it’s going to die off, again. Ford does not base their business model off the handful of people that shop cars based on absolute performance numbers.
It’s awesome that gm built such an impressive performance machine. Unfortunately it has serious flaws in the eyes of buyers that have an effect on its perceived value. For being so much cheaper than a comparable performance mustang, i find it very disappointing that they couldn’t improve the overall car to get more people interested in it.
 

Mikepol2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
1,204
Reaction score
861
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
First Name
Mike
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mustang GT, 2015 Silverado LTZ 6.2L
Mach 1 premium with HP, Recaros, and red brake calipers... you're already at $61k +... ZL1 is $64k base. Amenities are abundant and included in the ZL1 too... Not to mention the 650HP/650TQ.

That'll be the comparison. Dollar for dollar performance and what you get for your money as you drive it off the lot from the dealership. Not could-of, would-of, should-of excuses with regard to gearing and other failures from Ford. 2017 SS 1LE had been out since 2016 for Ford to benchmark off of.

Trunk opening and visibility are not $13k+ advantage of value for the Mustang.

Proving tough for me to justify $61k for something I can obtain for $43k in a SS with only the 1LE package as an option and get same amenities. Just waiting for the numbers and commentary of other related note worthy details to come out between the 2. Feelings of disappointment are rumbling in my gut for the predicted results I have.
Other GM vehicles are less expensive than their Ford counterparts too... my Silverado was definitely less expensive than similarly equipped F150's, but I bought it because I liked it better than the F150. In the case of Mustang vs Camaro, I test drove both in 2018 and liked the Mustang better even though it was more expensive. Oh well. Then a few weeks ago I test drove a Mach 1 and loved it, and ordered one the next day. $54K for a Premium with the Tremec and handling package, and I don't mind that I could have gotten a 1LE for less. I love the 1LE's, I just like Mustangs a little bit more. Yep, give GM credit, they often can offer more bang for the buck. But at the same time, It's OK to like what you like.

I would just say test drive both before you make any judgements, seat time may change your mind.
 

Medsport

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
444
Reaction score
45
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
2016 Guard Premium GT automatic
I don't give a shit about sales (and I say that as a share holder). I care about the money in my wallet, and getting the most fun for my money. The only thing that kept me from getting a SS 1LE was visibility, and the only thing that kept me out of a Challenger 1320 was my love of dark green.
Really? So you think the 1320 is pretty good? I'm heavily leaning that way right now and like a lot of their colors (F8, Sinnamon, Octane and to a lesser extent GoMango, Hellraisin, Frostbite). My main pause is the tires since it will be mainly a DD for me. I know I will need at least an additional winter wheel/tire set (if I can't find a cheap, reliable, winter beater car or truck) and then may need another wheel/tire set for daily use unless I just switch out the tires, but am leary as I'm pretty sure I have had the tires shop scrape the rims doing this in my stang. The more I think about it, this may be way more expense/effort than I want and may just get a loaded regular scat or WB. But then I may be kicking myself for not getting the quickest one with the most potential. BTW, I did find a guy that had a set of winter wheels and tires, supposedly in great shape for $200. It sounds almost too good to pass up. But I haven't definitely decided on the car yet and he is several hours away and I really doubt I could fit the whole set in my Mustang in one trip.
 

shogun32

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Messages
7,622
Reaction score
4,413
Location
Northern VA
First Name
Matt
Vehicle(s)
2019 GT+PP, SS+1LE, 2020 F150
Vehicle Showcase
2
his may be way more expense/effort than I want and may just get a loaded regular scat or WB. But then I may be kicking myself for not getting the quickest one with the most potential.
the WB comes with the best suspension they offer - which IMO is a must if you want to actually hustle the big girl. It's no Mustang though, far, far from it. Last I checked the 1320 was only any good in a straight line.
 

Medsport

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
444
Reaction score
45
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
2016 Guard Premium GT automatic
Understood, but in my area there are almost no curvy roads. I would have to take a road trip to find some or go to a track and that's why I'm leaning towards the 1320.
 

Schwerin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Messages
2,928
Reaction score
1,480
Location
Philly
Vehicle(s)
2019 Mustang BULLITT
Really? So you think the 1320 is pretty good? I'm heavily leaning that way right now and like a lot of their colors (F8, Sinnamon, Octane and to a lesser extent GoMango, Hellraisin, Frostbite). My main pause is the tires since it will be mainly a DD for me. I know I will need at least an additional winter wheel/tire set (if I can't find a cheap, reliable, winter beater car or truck) and then may need another wheel/tire set for daily use unless I just switch out the tires, but am leary as I'm pretty sure I have had the tires shop scrape the rims doing this in my stang. The more I think about it, this may be way more expense/effort than I want and may just get a loaded regular scat or WB. But then I may be kicking myself for not getting the quickest one with the most potential. BTW, I did find a guy that had a set of winter wheels and tires, supposedly in great shape for $200. It sounds almost too good to pass up. But I haven't definitely decided on the car yet and he is several hours away and I really doubt I could fit the whole set in my Mustang in one trip.
I found it really comfortable to sit in. The performance and sound were great. I just didn't find any colors around that I liked it in, the Bullitt was a color I love and handles twisties better. Had I seen a colors around that I loved the 1320 in I don't think I'd be second guessing myself, and would be just as satisfied with my purchase.

I have a 2nd set of wheel for my Mustang for the winter with dedicated snow tires as well. Just some ebay wheels and a nice set of snow tires.
 

shogun32

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2019
Messages
7,622
Reaction score
4,413
Location
Northern VA
First Name
Matt
Vehicle(s)
2019 GT+PP, SS+1LE, 2020 F150
Vehicle Showcase
2
i find it very disappointing that they couldn’t improve the overall car to get more people interested in it.
they'd have to fire their Manga/Gandum and Match-Box design team first. I get not wanting to look like every other smooth-shaped/bean car and truck out there, but deliberate and in-your-face blocky-ness only goes so far. I look forward to the next Camaro on Alpha2 or Beta. If they can make a useful 4-seater Ct5-v-blackwing, they can change the sheetmetal and maybe shorten it down to Camaro duty - read the description of the car and it's components and it practically screams, 7th gen Camaro.
 

Advertisement





 
4 - Big Worm Graphix


Advertisement
Top