2019 Oil Consumption update & Question

[JAJ]

You must have a lot of SNOW up yonder......calm down and do as you please!!

On the other hand.....I shall do as I please and any catch can on my car shall be emptied.....the contents WILL NOT BE RETURNED TO THE CRANK CASE.....THE END!!

Oh......and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Happy New Year to you too! New Year's day arrived as the first day of sun after 10 days of steady rain. Taking the dogs to the beach in an hour or two. Totally snow-free here

By the time I've emptied my FP separator, the contents have been through two containers that I use for used oil so I consider it contaminated and it goes in the recycling. But, more than once, I've considered fitting an electric valve that would open when the engine is off and drain the catch can into the sump. It's just that, given how easy it is to empty the unit every month or two, I haven't bothered.

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[Caballus]

FYI......DIRECT FROM FORD PERFORMANCE!!

Please Note: This oil separator needs to be emptied out periodically. We recommend emptying it every oil change.

This separator is for the Coyote and can be used on the Voodoo, though there is a different FP separator that is better for the Voodoo (for those that prefer an FP separator).

There is a purpose built FP separator for the Predator engine and no way to drain drain it. The oil is sent back into the engine on a GT500; surprising to some, but fact.

 

[RJay]

There is a purpose built FP separator for the Predator engine and no way to drain drain it. The oil is sent back into the engine on a GT500; surprising to some, but fact.

That was my point - if FP is draining this oil directly back into the crankcase on the flagship GT500 - then how bad can it be?

And I'll throw out a possible reason why they did it - CARB.

From what I understand, a factory-installed system has to be self-draining with no owner intervention required.

We can all purchase aftermarket O/A Seps from FP, and complain that they weren't factory installed, but the reason may very well be they are not CARB-complaint because they have to be serviced.

 

[JAJ]

That was my point - if FP is draining this oil directly back into the crankcase on the flagship GT500 - then how bad can it be?

And I'll throw out a possible reason why they did it - CARB.

From what I understand, a factory-installed system has to be self-draining with no owner intervention required.

We can all purchase aftermarket O/A Seps from FP, and complain that they weren't factory installed, but the reason may very well be they are not CARB-complaint because they have to be serviced.

The highlight issue may be CARB compliance, but the real issue is "regular owner compliance". Putting a system on a car that requires maintenance on a regular basis is an invitation to problems. A lot of owners would just drive the car until the separator fills and overflows and floods the intake with liquid oil and then complain that Ford makes crappy engines. Ford doesn't need the aggro, so they don't install them from the factory.

 

[Caballus]

The highlight issue may be CARB compliance, but the real issue is "regular owner compliance". Putting a system on a car that requires maintenance on a regular basis is an invitation to problems. A lot of owners would just drive the car until the separator fills and overflows and floods the intake with liquid oil and then complain that Ford makes crappy engines. Ford doesn't need the aggro, so they don't install them from the factory.

That makes sense but doesn't explain the OEM GT500 system that reintroduces the separated oil back into the engine.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/ford-performance-2020-gt500-oil-air-separator.128769/

 

[JAJ]

That makes sense but doesn't explain the OEM GT500 system that reintroduces the separated oil back into the engine.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/ford-performance-2020-gt500-oil-air-separator.128769/

I'm not sure why it doesn't explain it - the GT500 separator is maintenance-free. It's fully "regular owner compliant" so it's ok to install at the factory.

If you think about it, it's just an extension to the labyrinth in the valve cover that's there to keep oil from getting into the PCV plumbing and getting to the intake manifold. If the one in the valve cover doesn't quite get all the oil, the outboard one gets the last of it and sends it back to the sump where it belongs.

 

[Caballus]

I'm not sure why it doesn't explain it - the GT500 separator is maintenance-free. It's fully "regular owner compliant" so it's ok to install at the factory.

If you think about it, it's just an extension to the labyrinth in the valve cover that's there to keep oil from getting into the PCV plumbing and getting to the intake manifold. If the one in the valve cover doesn't quite get all the oil, the outboard one gets the last of it and sends it back to the sump where it belongs.

I get your point on regular owner compliant, though I don't believe it comes standard on all trims. Believe it is only provided on the least common version(s); i.e., CFTP (too lazy to dig back in and verify ).

Nonetheless, my point is that in a GT500 the oil is ultimately returned to the crankcase. Reuse of separated oil was one of the issues being debated in the initial discussion. Some argued that it is contaminated and should not be reused. With the GT500, everything goes back to the crankcase--only point.

I've been running a UPR separator since 2016, which I dump regularly and do not reuse, by choice.

 

[JAJ]

I get your point on regular owner compliant, though I don't believe it comes standard on all trims. Believe it is only provided on the least common version(s); i.e., CFTP (too lazy to dig back in and verify ).

Nonetheless, my point is that in a GT500 the oil is ultimately returned to the crankcase. Reuse of separated oil was one of the issues being debated in the initial discussion. Some argued that it is contaminated and should not be reused. With the GT500, everything goes back to the crankcase--only point.

I've been running a UPR separator since 2016, which I dump regularly and do not reuse, by choice.

Yes, it's stock on the CFTP and not installed on the base trim.

I don't think we disagree - I dump my separator oil too. What I'm taking issue with is the idea that oil in the separator is somehow contaminated. I believe that that idea is just a FUD (fear-uncertainty-doubt) marketing meme that's used to sell separators. To me, the idea defies logic - oil that's just been captured in the separator is identical to the oil in the sump and it's surrounded by the same crankcase gases that surround the oil in the sump (a lot of which takes the form of oil spray and droplets flying around), so what's the problem with sending it straight back to the sump? Well, there isn't one, so the CFTP system sends it straight back, as does the BMW "M" engine system.

 

[Caballus]

Yes, it's stock on the CFTP and not installed on the base trim.

I don't think we disagree - I dump my separator oil too. What I'm taking issue with is the idea that oil in the separator is somehow contaminated. I believe that that idea is just a FUD (fear-uncertainty-doubt) marketing meme that's used to sell separators. To me, the idea defies logic - oil that's just been captured in the separator is identical to the oil in the sump and it's surrounded by the same crankcase gases that surround the oil in the sump (a lot of which takes the form of oil spray and droplets flying around), so what's the problem with sending it straight back to the sump? Well, there isn't one, so the CFTP system sends it straight back, as does the BMW "M" engine system.

Don't disagree, but will continue to dump mine....

 

[cdh027]

Yes, it's stock on the CFTP and not installed on the base trim.

I don't think we disagree - I dump my separator oil too. What I'm taking issue with is the idea that oil in the separator is somehow contaminated. I believe that that idea is just a FUD (fear-uncertainty-doubt) marketing meme that's used to sell separators. To me, the idea defies logic - oil that's just been captured in the separator is identical to the oil in the sump and it's surrounded by the same crankcase gases that surround the oil in the sump (a lot of which takes the form of oil spray and droplets flying around), so what's the problem with sending it straight back to the sump? Well, there isn't one, so the CFTP system sends it straight back, as does the BMW "M" engine system.

You are correct. And the people that say the oil in the catch can is contaminated are correct as well. Guess what, as soon as you start your car after a fresh oil change, your oil is now contaminated. The contaminated oil in the sump is the same contaminated oil in the catch can. I wouldn't hesitate to use the GT500 system.

 

[Caballus]

You are correct. And the people that say the oil in the catch can is contaminated are correct as well. Guess what, as soon as you start your car after a fresh oil change, your oil is now contaminated. The contaminated oil in the sump is the same contaminated oil in the catch can. I wouldn't hesitate to use the GT500 system.

The argument was that blow-by becomes "more" contaminated than the oil that remains in the system.

 

[Coosawjack]

None of the 2020 GT500's will be driven enough to hurt the engine even if they totally disabled the PCV system!!

Those that are raced (tracked) will be expected to have fresh oil before and after racing.......this was even noted in my 2019 owner's manual so from Ford's point of view they've covered their butts!!

I'd still dump mine......why put even a few ounces of contaminated oil back into and engine.....senseless??

 

[JAJ]

None of the 2020 GT500's will be driven enough to hurt the engine even if they totally disabled the PCV system!!

Those that are raced (tracked) will be expected to have fresh oil before and after racing.......this was even noted in my 2019 owner's manual so from Ford's point of view they've covered their butts!!

I'd still dump mine......why put even a few ounces of contaminated oil back into and engine.....senseless??

You're pretty much right about the 2020 GT500 owners - lots will put them on a trailer at the dealer and they'll never be outside again.

I checked the Owner's Supplement for the GT350 and up to 2019, there was no recommendation to change the oil before or after a track event - just follow the OLM indicator and that's it. They do say to install oil separators, but they don't say what to do with the oil they separate.

The 2020 GT350 Supplement does call for an oil change before an event and a change after every 4 hours of track time. This wording is borrowed from the GT500 Supplement and it's probably overkill for the 350.

 

[Coosawjack]

I remember they suggested that the "Track Oil" be a higher viscosity than Street Oil (5W20)......change before tracking to the higher viscosity and back to 5W20 after.....FIVE GALLONS OF OIL.....YIKES!!

Your GT350 uses higher viscosity anyway, doesn't it??

 

[JAJ]

I remember they suggested that the "Track Oil" be a higher viscosity than Street Oil (5W20)......change before tracking to the higher viscosity and back to 5W20 after.....FIVE GALLONS OF OIL.....YIKES!!

Your GT350 uses higher viscosity anyway, doesn't it??

The GT350 takes 5w50. The GT-PP "change it before and after" recommendation results from two factors - Ford wants you to use thicker oil when operating at the outer reaches of the engine's safe range but once you're off the track they want you to use thinner oil for CAFE purposes. The change has nothing to do with the condition of the oil - if you just run 5w30 all the time, you could follow the OLM just like the GT350. However, for legal reasons they can't say that in the owner's manual.

The rapid change cycle for the GT500 and the 2020+ GT350 is a bit puzzling though. The OLM isn't stupid, so why doesn't it call for a change that quickly - or does it? Just seems like overkill.

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