2019 GT with Whipple stalling

[Unclenard]

Friend has a 2019 GT with a Whipple stage 2, bought it that way, didn't have it installed. Having issues with stalling, usually after getting on it and coming to a stop. Replaced the easier driver's side VCT solenoids, haven't tried the harder passenger side ones yet. Has gotten codes P0124 and P160A. We have been told the uniblade throttle body can be an issue and was suggested to switch to a dual 67mm instead. Obviously the passenger side VCT solenoids has been suggested as a cause of the stalling too. Looking for guidance on what the best option is to solve this.

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[robvas]

Who tuned it?

Find out who tuned it and send them a datalog. If you can't find the original tuner, call up a new tuner and have them take a look.

 

[Unclenard]

Who tuned it?

Find out who tuned it and send them a datalog. If you can't find the original tuner, call up a new tuner and have them take a look.

Had it tuned again with a new tuner with the specific goal of solving the stalling issue. It is a well known tuner and they have been little help and are now not responding.

 

[ehazel]

I had to do all four of the vct/vvt solenoids pretty early on well before the whipple went on. But my primary symptom was a surging/bouncing on its own when idle for 5-10 seconds before recovering or stabilizing, sometimes small rpm swings but sometimes large. It would stall if the surging was particularly bad and got the rpm low enough. Small swings would be like+/-250 to 500 rpm from where it should have been(this would happen pretty regularly) The worst I ever saw was the rpm bouncing up and down from 250-2.5k. The car would stall or could lunge forward if you weren't on the brakes when it would start happening. Which would be at coasting, idling, coming to a stop at lights, low speed movement(think parkling lots/garages, stop and go traffic).

Here's a short clip of some of the smaller rpm swings.



I also had a major pia dealing with the large throttle body. My symptoms were the car would be thrown into limp mode if the tires spun at all or high rpm/wot shifts or any large/fast throttle movements. I would get p0124s regularly along with p2119. Requiring the car to be powered off for a few minutes to clear, then it would fire up and run as if nothing was wrong.

I went back and worth with whipple on and off in a few different tickets.

Over the course we tried the below with some improvement but no final solution.

1.
"We recommend removing the throttle body gasket and using anaerobic sealer instead. DO NOT use silicone or RTV. Silicone and RTV is too thick and promotes the same issues as the gasket. Use a small bead of Permatex Anaerobic Gasket Maker or Loctite #515 between the throttle body and supercharger inlet. Tighten the four bolts evenly in a crossing pattern until they are just snug. Before installing the intake tube, push the blade closed firmly with your thumb from the middle of the blade and both sides. The blade should release freely to the neutral position without any sticking."

2. Sent in for repair, got it back the issue would still happen on wot shifts at high rpm or fast throttle tip-in. I will say this one solved the codes on wheel spin.

3. New extension harness. Mine was always touchy and had to be ziptied in a specific way to a support wire or the problems would be even greater or throw communication codes. This didn't really make a change other than it no longer mattered how the extension was routed/supported.

4. Two different versions of the stage 2 tune.

In the end I solved it permanently by slowing down how fast the ecu attempts to move the throttle blade. In pcmtech it's auF23579, I turned mine down to 880°/second from the default 920. I haven't had any issues with it since.

I can't speak to if your overall issues are tune related but I would throw the stock whipple file back on and see what it does then start narrowing things down. Hopefully some of my descriptions/experiences help lean towards one thing or another.

 

[robvas]

Had it tuned again with a new tuner with the specific goal of solving the stalling issue. It is a well known tuner and they have been little help and are now not responding.

Well, you can't tune around a bad install or parts problem. Sometimes you can mask an issue but that's it.

Needs more diagnosis and troubleshooting.

It could very well be the Whipple TB

The codes you gave make it also seem like a wiring or sensor issue. Have you tested the pedal and checked all your wiring? There is a reason why I have a spare pedal in my garage...

First step is get a scan tool or do a datalog and check the pedal and TB for proper operation.

Then datalog the car when it stalls and look for things that stand out.

 

[Unclenard]

I had to do all four of the vct/vvt solenoids pretty early on well before the whipple went on. But my primary symptom was a surging/bouncing on its own when idle for 5-10 seconds before recovering or stabilizing, sometimes small rpm swings but sometimes large. It would stall if the surging was particularly bad and got the rpm low enough. Small swings would be like+/-250 to 500 rpm from where it should have been(this would happen pretty regularly) The worst I ever saw was the rpm bouncing up and down from 250-2.5k. The car would stall or could lunge forward if you weren't on the brakes when it would start happening. Which would be at coasting, idling, coming to a stop at lights, low speed movement(think parkling lots/garages, stop and go traffic).

Here's a short clip of some of the smaller rpm swings.



I also had a major pia dealing with the large throttle body. My symptoms were the car would be thrown into limp mode if the tires spun at all or high rpm/wot shifts or any large/fast throttle movements. I would get p0124s regularly along with p2119. Requiring the car to be powered off for a few minutes to clear, then it would fire up and run as if nothing was wrong.

I went back and worth with whipple on and off in a few different tickets.

Over the course we tried the below with some improvement but no final solution.

1.
"We recommend removing the throttle body gasket and using anaerobic sealer instead. DO NOT use silicone or RTV. Silicone and RTV is too thick and promotes the same issues as the gasket. Use a small bead of Permatex Anaerobic Gasket Maker or Loctite #515 between the throttle body and supercharger inlet. Tighten the four bolts evenly in a crossing pattern until they are just snug. Before installing the intake tube, push the blade closed firmly with your thumb from the middle of the blade and both sides. The blade should release freely to the neutral position without any sticking."

2. Sent in for repair, got it back the issue would still happen on wot shifts at high rpm or fast throttle tip-in. I will say this one solved the codes on wheel spin.

3. New extension harness. Mine was always touchy and had to be ziptied in a specific way to a support wire or the problems would be even greater or throw communication codes. This didn't really make a change other than it no longer mattered how the extension was routed/supported.

4. Two different versions of the stage 2 tune.

In the end I solved it permanently by slowing down how fast the ecu attempts to move the throttle blade. In pcmtech it's auF23579, I turned mine down to 880°/second from the default 920. I haven't had any issues with it since.

I can't speak to if your overall issues are tune related but I would throw the stock whipple file back on and see what it does then start narrowing things down. Hopefully some of my descriptions/experiences help lean towards one thing or another.

Thank you. I guess I should bite the bullet and start with the passenger side VCT solenoids. The driver's side sort of sucked as I couldn't get the cover off but just up enough to reach in and replace them. I've seen the same can be done with the passenger side without removing the high pressure fuel pump.
I've considered removing the gasket and replacing with 515 as I have that on hand. That would be a quick easy thing to try.
What did you send in for repair in your #2? The throttle body? Do you know what they did in fixing it?
Did you buy a new extension harness directly from Whipple?

 

[Unclenard]

Well, you can't tune around a bad install or parts problem. Sometimes you can mask an issue but that's it.

Needs more diagnosis and troubleshooting.

It could very well be the Whipple TB

The codes you gave make it also seem like a wiring or sensor issue. Have you tested the pedal and checked all your wiring? There is a reason why I have a spare pedal in my garage...

First step is get a scan tool or do a datalog and check the pedal and TB for proper operation.

Then datalog the car when it stalls and look for things that stand out.

We have tried some data logging but wasn't sure what parameters to log. We assumed that the tuner would have done this as it is what we paid them to do but apparently not.
It usually doesn't throw an error when it does stall.

 

[robvas]

Tuners tune the car they don't fix it

 

[Unclenard]

Tuners tune the car they don't fix it

I know this and it was supposed to be a shop doing repairs and working with a tuner a few doors down, working together to figure out the issue and fix it. The tuner can log for things like you are suggesting that can point to issues with parts that then the repair shop could have replaced them. I appreciate your feedback on the logging.

 

[ehazel]

Thank you. I guess I should bite the bullet and start with the passenger side VCT solenoids. The driver's side sort of sucked as I couldn't get the cover off but just up enough to reach in and replace them. I've seen the same can be done with the passenger side without removing the high pressure fuel pump.
I've considered removing the gasket and replacing with 515 as I have that on hand. That would be a quick easy thing to try.
What did you send in for repair in your #2? The throttle body? Do you know what they did in fixing it?
Did you buy a new extension harness directly from Whipple?

I sent in the throttle body. They didn't explicitly say what they did, but looking at it when I got it back there was a small paint pen mark near the adjustable set screw and it was filled in so it was no longer accessible. So I would assume they did some kind of adjustment or calibration on it.

Here is a thread from few years back about this issue. It looks like @engineermike came up with the same solution a few years before me lol.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/2018-p2119-code-on-whipple.120831/


I did get the harness direct from whipple, The ordering process wasn't the most fun. I had to email a form back and forth with their sales email.

 

[engineermike]

Here is a thread from few years back about this issue. It looks like @engineermike came up with the same solution a few years before me lol.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/2018-p2119-code-on-whipple.120831/

I've since found another fix. auF28274 "Stuck test command vs actual tolerance", basically the error range the throttle angle can have before triggering the P2119 code. I added some to it at the higher angles only and never had the code again.

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