2018 whipple a10 car

[95 marty]

Having problem with my whipple losing boost around 6000 rpms. My blow off valve opens everytime I'm in boost around 6000 rpms. Comes right back but mid gear while full throttle it just opens up and then goes back to normal.

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[Roh92cp]

The whipple doesn't have a blow off valve, but rather a bypass valve that operates by opening under vacuum and closing under boost. Not likely that is the problem either, likely throttle closing due to either settings in flight control or other issue. How have you confirmed it's actually boost that your loosing? do you have a boost gauge to conform that, or are you feeling a loss of power and assuming it's boost loss?

 

[Det_Riot]

Are you using the whipple tune? If so contact them for the most revised version (pending when you put it on). They originally added a handful of protections within the tune that made cars very conservative.

 

[95 marty]

I went to a dyno day and they did three pulls and all three pulls around 6000 rpms the bypass would off with out lifting or shifting. I only made 622,615 and 616 to the rear on a stage 2 kit

 

[rtg]

Take some logs with the Tomahawk. That will at least tell if the TB position is moving or if something else is up. These logs are easy to read. Post some logs if you need some help reading.

Rob

 

[95 marty]

Will do thanks

 

[beefcake]

Yep. Best thing is to log the car. That’s the great thing about the newer models. U can see everything going on with them

 

[Bluelightning]

I went to a dyno day and they did three pulls and all three pulls around 6000 rpms the bypass would off with out lifting or shifting. I only made 622,615 and 616 to the rear on a stage 2 kit

Log the car and see if it is closing throttle around 6k. I had this problem and it was fixed with one of their tune updates.

 

[Mustang Mods]

Are you turning traction control off? Try unplugging it by the air box on the drivers fender. The 18's are very sensitive to traction control and it doesn't always turn off. Unplug it and try a wot hit, BE CAREFUL there is no help from the car and I can say even on track tires I spin a little at 120 on the highway.

 

[95 marty]

Brought my car to a tuner and he is having problems with it. Sent data log and video of car doing it at 6500 rpms everytime. Whipple said it might be a knock sensor. I know I'm a ca car but I do have torco to bring it up and the car is only making 622 to the rear at that time. Getting very frustrated. Might just take it off and send it back to them.

 

[rtg]

Trouble shooting can be very frustrating. However, if there is an issue with the base engine then you will still have it with another SC or maybe even stock. I would spend a little more time to understand exactly what is going on. Remember this is a project which means it will not necessarily go as planned. More power will highlight marginal parts of the system. The reason for a check after the install is to make sure it is running correctly. I am sure that once the reason it is not making the expected power is understood the fix will not be that complicated. Even if you go back to stock you will have to do a complete check out. There may be issues that have to be run down.

With all this being said, measuring knock is easy enough to perform. There should be no guess there. The cause of the knock is another issue. BTW, you have not indicated if this is a stage 1 or stage 2. With stage 2 there is a fuel pump change. That can be a problem and cause knock. Who did the install? How many miles on the car since install? Other than WOT power is it running correctly, i.e. shifting correctly? Something simple like poorly gapped plugs can have an impact.

You need to check all of the boxes that can cause reduced power. The tuner you took it to, do there have experience with this kit? I would expect they would, at a minimum, have put a fuel pressure and manifold pressure gauges on during the pulls. Did they use any other tool for pulling logs like HPTuners?

The point is these installs are not plug and play. There is a lot going on. The good news with Whipple is that being VERY conservative the tune keeps issues from damaging the power train or at least that is the intent. Other SC / tunes may not offer that protection and when you do find the cause of reduced power it can be due to damage left behind.

FWIW,

Rob

 

[95 marty]

Thank you. I do understand that doing things like this can be a pain. Car runs good though until it hits that rpm. It is a stage 2 kit so we did have to put the new fuel pump in. Transmission was not good until the last update that whipple gave me, now that is doing alot better. Car only has 4400 miles on it and did not have this problem until after the blower install. We will do some research and see if we can figure it out. It's just weird that my tunner said everything is normal until it hits 6500 rpm. On the data log you can't tell why it's doing that

 

[rtg]

First off let me say I am not some Whipple fan boy. I chose the Whipple because at the time I felt it was the best compromise for an SC power adder. Items I considered: complete package (including tune), CARB compliance, OEM appearance, and expected increase in power.

I can say for my stage 2 install that when I first took it out, the behavior took some getting used to. I thought it was not working like I thought it should. I think most people install and mash the gas. There is much more to it than that. Then and even now I am still learning what is going on in the different modes and RPM ranges within those modes. It took several WOT runs to understand that there is significant TB position pull back due to wheel spin, even at high MPH speeds. As everyone has said there are a lot reasons the tune pulls back on the throttle.

Some quick questions:

1 - when did you get your tune? is it the most recent (newest came out about 3 weeks ago)

2 - is the idle in park around 800 RPM (full operating temp) and steady

3 - is the idle in drive around 725 RPM (full operating temp) and steady

4 - does the bypass actuator open when the car is started

5 - coolant levels at full and not changing while running, especially the IC coolant

6 - closed loop driveability good

7 - do you have consistent power from the start of a pull to where the power starts to fall off (many reasons for it to fall off)

8 - are the tires really the correct ones for this power level

The point of the above is to understand if the install is complete and working correctly. Does not guarantee there are not install issues but if all of these items check out a lot of the install boxes are checked. If you think about it once the install is checked out there is not a lot that keeps the SC system from the potential of making expected power. After that it is; not too hot air, spark, and fuel controlled by the tune. The tune is the same of all so not a lot of variables there. Lastly traction.

I can absolutely say my engine is making a ton of power but it comes on strong at around 5750+ RPM. I am not sure I believe that the current tune has the same power curve as shown on the Whipple site. I am getting wheel spin with AS tires at around 6200 RPM then the throttle pulls back quick and a lot. When the car maintains traction I get a strong pull to redline. However, with the cooler weather and AS tires that does not happen much.....

I have not been on a dyno yet but I could see where if not strapped down well there could be some wheel slip. As Mustang Mods pointed out unplugging the traction control on the dyno is appropriate.

My guess is that you are making the power you expect but once it comes on the tune pulls it back because it senses an issue. In my mind this is a good thing. To me it's an issue of learning it's traits and work with them or around them as needed. Hang in there.

FWIW, I understand there is another tune version coming out in about 30 days. With every tune it is like a different car. I can say each tune has yielded a better driving car. Right now for me the driveability is very good.

Rob

 

[Tommy V]

You should be able to see wheel.spin in a log and compare the throttle position to the wheel spin to see if that is the problem

 

[rtg]

The problem I have seen is that with the Tomahawk logs you only see wheel spin with a change in MPH. The tune is so responsive that log may not catch it before pulling back on throttle.

Another point I should have made in my earlier post is that you can see the engine load and that will be a tell on the power being made at 80+ % throttle. I am seeing loads at around 160. There are no units but am thinking it is in %. If correct I calculate roughly 8.82 PSI boost @ 5900 RPM. On another log I got 166% load @ 6958 RPM or 9.55 PSI. The calcs are an estimate. No MAP sensor.

Attached is one of the logs for reference...

Rob

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