2018 PP1 alignment readings

[90Notch]

2018 PP1
19,500 miles
both front tires eaten up on very inside edge, just replaced with new Indy 500s

I read about others on here with similar issues and Ford doing nothing so I decided just to do it myself. Got the $195 (out the door!) lifetime alignment deal at Firestone and took it in. This is what they came back with....

So, clearly camber is way off on left side. So I bought camber bolts for the front and camber adjusters for the rear, both of which I'll be installing in the morning.

I bought the car with 1,000 miles on it. The car had an engine harness replaced at 600 miles then a VCT went out at 1,000 and they traded it in. I haven't had any issues and it has always driven great. I assumed toe would be out and that would correct the issue. Maybe they hit a pothole or curb? Wheels and tires show no signs of damage and both tires were eaten up in the front.

I have an appointment on Sunday to get it aligned again now that the camber will be adjustable. I plan to tell them to adjust it to specs for optimal tire wear and mileage since it's jut my daily driver. Any suggestions for what those specs should look like?

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[Dana Pants]

Those front alignment numbers are practically impossible unless the car was hit or already had some extra adjustment added.

Regardless, the front subframe is 8 bolts. You could loosen all 8 bolts and try to shift it over with a pry bar. (I actually did this due to 0.7 deg cross camber.) I doubt it will solve the issue, but would help.

Due to the fact that the entire side is low in camber, I suspect something wrong with the alignment rack as well... you should snoop around a bit before someone adjusts the car to be more wrong than it started.

there are plenty of arguments about alignment on this forum, but the specified ranges on that sheet are definitely wrong for camber.

 

[Norm Peterson]

2° side to side difference in camber should be visible to the naked eye (looking from straight ahead and straight behind) without any instrumentation whatsoever. If those numbers actually are correct, your car's right side tires will be pretty much standing straight up, and the left side tires will be noticeably inclined. This is a $0.00 sanity check you can do on just about any paved surface that's reasonably flat (no obvious dips, holes, or bumps). Doesn't have to be perfectly level because you'll be comparing what one side looks like against what the other side looks like.

Here's what about -2° camber looks like with the car sitting on a flat driveway. Can't miss that the tire is inclined away from the vertical, and -2.5° would be even more obvious. If your car's left side tires don't look like that, something's wrong with your Firestone store's alignment equipment.

If you want a better idea about what your car's camber numbers are, find a level setup area and use a digital angle finder. Lay it up against the wheel rather than the tire so that the embossed lettering on the tire does not introduce errors in your measuring.

FWIW, the situation you may have run into is one of three reasons why I taught myself how to do my own alignments.


Norm

 

[Cobrakit]

$195 and it looks like they didn't even touch it with a wrench. What a rip off. As long as its in the range, they don't touch. For example you could have neg camber on one side and positive on the other and they probably wouldn't adjust, even if they could. Of course most vehicles can only have toe adjusted from factory. This is why i do most of my own.

 

[Elp_jc]

Due to the fact that the entire side is low in camber, I suspect something wrong with the alignment rack as well.

Or the car hit a curb sideways. Did the OP buy it new? I also highly suspect having that huge difference without some kind of incident. Also doubt the machine is that bad, but it's always possible too. I'd definitely look for a second opinion (even if DIY, like suggested above) before touching the car. Good luck.

 

[90Notch]

Wow no joke.I do a good bit of work myself but have never messed with alignment stuff. Looks like it may be time to learn. The only silver lining to the potential faulty alignment rack/tech situation is that my appt. is at a different Firestone tomorrow and I'll be having a thorough conversation with them before. Maybe I'll get some readings I know are true and can go from there.

I took some pics. They aren't great. I almost feel like no matter how straight I make the wheel, one wheel is always cocked outwards a little. May just be my bad eye, I'm horrible with eyeballing if things are level or straight.

I may take my small level and go somewhere totally flat to see how far out it is. I was planning on installing the front and rear camber adjusters this afternoon but I guess that's on hold until I get some confirmation of the readings. I also have an appointment next Monday (Aug 3) for my airbag light that's on and A10 reprogram. Maybe I should have them put it on a rack too and see WTF is going on if the readings are truly that far out. I bought it from them with 1,000 miles but I'm guessing they will blame me. However, I've never hit any curbs, potholes, etc. and I never felt like the car has driven poorly.

 

[90Notch]

Those front alignment numbers are practically impossible unless the car was hit or already had some extra adjustment added.

Regardless, the front subframe is 8 bolts. You could loosen all 8 bolts and try to shift it over with a pry bar. (I actually did this due to 0.7 deg cross camber.) I doubt it will solve the issue, but would help.

Due to the fact that the entire side is low in camber, I suspect something wrong with the alignment rack as well... you should snoop around a bit before someone adjusts the car to be more wrong than it started.

there are plenty of arguments about alignment on this forum, but the specified ranges on that sheet are definitely wrong for camber.

Can you give me some good specs for even tire wear and all around daily driving? I want to make sure wherever I end up letting adjust the car has the specs I want and actually does what they can to get them as close as possible. The subframe idea will be a go if it's truly off that far.

 

[Dana Pants]

Can you give me some good specs for even tire wear and all around daily driving? I want to make sure wherever I end up letting adjust the car has the specs I want and actually does what they can to get them as close as possible. The subframe idea will be a go if it's truly off that far.

as little toe out as possible front. As little toe in as possible rear. The factory camber is pretty straight. -1 deg front and -1.5 deg rear. Try to get close to that.

 

[90Notch]

Took it today. Told them about my experience at the other location and left it. Here’s their report:

The tech said he could adjust front camber more if I install the camber bolts I bought.

Comparing the current settings vs ideal ones (found in other alignment thread), it looks like the front camber and rear camber are fine. Front toe is good though both sides are not the same (ideally). Total rear toe seems high but both “in spec”. Does that matter?

 

[K4fxd]

Looks pretty good, I'd adjust the toe both front and rear. I like .05 toe in at the front each side and .12 toe in at the rear both sides

So front total toe .1 rear total toe .24

 

[Bluemustang]

Thrust angle is WAY off. That rear toe is not okay. Just being in the green does not mean it's fine. You need to realign the rear. The toe and camber kind of go in hand in hand. One adjustment will affect the other. Aligning the rear is a pain with the camber adjustment at the slot in the subframe. It can be time consuming and difficult to adjust with precision. That said a competent shop should be able to adjust it for you. You need the thrust angle to be 0.00.

 

[kz]

I don't understand how a any alignment shop would release a car with a rear toe like that. It won't drive straight on/off the throttle. You have one rear wheel toed out, other one in.

What Bluemustang said above - thrust angle needs to be zero. Rear alignement on this car is pain in the ass as toe changes with camber adjustment and camber changes with toe adjustment, but it's not an excuse for this kind of bullshit.

 

[K4fxd]

Just to clarify, I said to change the toe. The camber looks good for a street car.

 

[90Notch]

So what is the solution here? I have front camber adjustment bolts and rear brackets. Would installing them make this easier to get all of this how it should be (such as the rear camber/toe issue)? I don't understand why this has been such an ordeal for a simple daily driver.

I could probably get a refund for all of it and take it to a trusted local shop. I really just thought they could handle a simple alignment and for the $200 I could have it checked every now and then. Seems I was very wrong. About that learning how to align it yourself stuff........

 

[Norm Peterson]

Front cambers are OK for a car that's street-driven with a bit of enthusiasm, front toes are OK although if you're having to make an unusual number of small steering corrections on flat pavement pulling the toes just a little in (about a tenth of a degree total) would tame that.

Rear toes are still off. The total is OK, if a bit 'light', but at a bit more than a tenth of a degree the thrust angle is off by enough to show up at the steering wheel (I think you'd be steering the wheel a little to the left to go straight, and the car would gradually drift to the right or follow a gradual right-hand bend when you're steering the wheel dead-straight).


Norm

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