2017-'18 GT500 & GT500KR

[thePill]

ThePill is backpedaling again and clouding the discussion with contradicting statements to save face.. -His MO

He also said a bi turbo and twinscroll are the same thing: 2 turbos in series (small feeding large). Lol. :lol:

You can have a pair of turbos on a Bi-Turbo System. Both of those turbos can be a Twin Scroll design.


:lol:

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[thePill]

Where would they put the turbos? There's. Alot of reliability and heat challenges mounting them up high like most aftermarket/Hellion kits out there and it's pretty darn tight for packaging them in the traditional area under the V, even if using a log manifold...

So, just to reiterate...

The engine in question is NOT a Parallel Twin Turbo system. That is what a Hellion is.

It will likely be a Sequential or Staged Bi-Turbo...


However, both of those systems can use Twin Scrolling technology in All 4 turbos used.



It IS NOT the same system you are thinking of. The Audi 4.0 uses a Bi-Turbo system in which BOTH are of Twin Scrolling.

Do you understand? Or can we stop trying to worry about heat?

 

[thePill]

Trust me... I have followed the advent of a Twin Turbo Coyote for many, many years. I got to personally witness the EU-01 prototype in Germany.

There were two designs for a Twin Turbo system.

The 2013 Cobra Jet...

The 2011 EU-01 in which I covered here.

http://themustangsource.com/forums/f806/2015-spy-shots-511961/index15/

 

[Stuntman]

More backpedalling through contradicting statements...

So, just to reiterate...

The engine in question is NOT a Parallel Twin Turbo system. That is what a Hellion is.

It will likely be a Sequential or Staged Bi-Turbo...

However, both of those systems can use Twin Scrolling technology in All 4 turbos used.

The GT500 is going to have 4 turbos?!?!?!

This guy is hilarious! Sometimes I can't tell if he's serious, joking, or crazy...

 

[Stuntman]

No...

Bi-Turbo= Sequential

Twin Turbo= Parallel

Twin Scroll= Type of Turbo

The GT500 will be a Bi-Turbo V8 with 800hp. It is possible that they are a PAIR (not identical) or Twin Scroll Turbos BUT, it is on a Sequential Turbo System or Bi-Turbo.

It IS NOT a traditional Twin Turbo like the 2013 Cobra Jet. It is very hot...


Not back peddling, just showing you what is correct and what is not...

Re-read Post #257

Twin & Bi are synonymous & a description of having 2 turbos -mercedes uses both nomenclatures for the same engine.

"Bi-Turbo" is NOT by definition a compound or sequential setup. Here's the AMG 4.0 "Bi-Turbo" with 1 turbo feeding each bank:

Hell, the Mercedes 5.5L "Bi-Turbo" has the turbos outside the V:

Are you seriously going to keep fighting this? Look up the exhaust flow of any "biturbo", id be surprised if you found even one that was called "bi" for a sequential turbo setup from the factory. Most are fed by individual banks in V motors.

BI and TWIN are used INTERCHANGEABLY and no, it does not define a sequential or compound turbo.

 

[Hack]

BI and TWIN are used INTERCHANGEABLY and no, it does not define a sequential or compound turbo.

But bi-turbo sounds really cool!

 

[thePill]

More backpedalling through contradicting statements...


The GT500 is going to have 4 turbos?!?!?!

This guy is hilarious! Sometimes I can't tell if he's serious, joking, or crazy...

You are having a difficult time here...

Twin=Parallel (the one that gets really hot)

Bi-Turbo= Staged or Sequential (GT500 bound, Audi, BMW all use Bi-Turbo)

No, THET ARE NOT THE SAME.

Do not try and convince people the heat from a Twin Turbo system is danger, danger. It IS NOT the turbo system you are thinking.

I covered this waaaaaaaaay back in 2012. It IS NOT a Twin Turbo. It is a Bi-Turbo.

No, the GT500 won't use 4 turbos... you are lost...

 

[thePill]

So, just to reiterate...

The engine in question is NOT a Parallel Twin Turbo system. That is what a Hellion is.

It will likely be a Sequential or Staged Bi-Turbo...


However, both of those systems can use Twin Scrolling technology in All 4 turbos used.



It IS NOT the same system you are thinking of. The Audi 4.0 uses a Bi-Turbo system in which BOTH are of Twin Scrolling.

Do you understand? Or can we stop trying to worry about heat?

Here it is again...

You believe there is a one and only "dual" turbo design. One gets hot, like Hellion... the other, Bi-Turbo stays cool.

Your original argument has been remedied.

 

[thePill]

But bi-turbo sounds really cool!

Don't listen to him, Bi and Twin ARE NOT interchangeable.


He is confusing a Parallel Twin System with a Sequential Bi System. Each system contains two turbos, and ALL 4 turbos can be of Twin Scrolling nature. Meaning BOTH turbos on each system can be of twin scrolling design. The Audi is a Bi-Turbo system (staged or sequential) that uses a pair of twin scrolling (operation) turbos.

OR, you can have a true Twin Turbo design (Cobra Jet and EU-01). It makes a lot of heat (explained in the MS.com link) and packaging is ALWAYS an issue.




The GT500 will be a Bi-Turbo (staged) in which it will make close to 150hp per liter. So, if 800hp is the goal, we can almost figure out where the displacement could be (ceiling).


Stuntman will attempt to validate his "Too Hot" belief. Even though a handful of people on here explain HOW it is done.

Simple put, he is correct... It will NOT be a Twin Turbo system. It will be a Bi-Turbo system and there is a HUGE difference.

 

[Mike A.]

This thread is hilarious. :cheers:

 

[thePill]

.

Stuntman... This is a Bi-Turbo set up.


This IS NOT the same as the Cobra Jet Twin Turbo system.


Cobra Jet= Twin Turbo (Identical Twins)
Audi's is a Bi-Turbo (Little one feeds a bigger one)

Twin Scroll principle is similar to the SC'a Twin Screw. It can be applied to a Single Turbo, Both turbos in a Bi-Turbo setup or, maybe even both turbos in a Twin turbo system.

Twin Turbo IS NOT interchangeable... It is a generic term like Supercharging. Yet you have a two types and one has a more efficient Twin Screw.


There are NO packaging or heat concerns with the Bi-Turbo. You insisted there would be because YOU were unaware of TWO DIFFERENT DESIGNS.

Twin (Parallel)
BiT (Staged)


This picture he posted of this PS'd engine is a Bi-Turbo system that uses TWO twin scrolling turbos.

Get it? Got it? Good...



The GT500 will be around 150hp per liter, at 5.0 it's 750hp... Will they use PTWA to get a 5.2-5.5? Likely...

 

[thePill]

http://oppositelock.kinja.com/twin-turbo-vs-biturbo-lets-settle-this-1589877604


Here is a debate on the two.

Twin Turbo vs Bi-Turbo



(Moving on...)

 

[thePill]

"Biturbo is the same as "Sequential Twin Turbo"
Basically, you have 1 smaller turbo for lower RPM range, and a larger turbo for higher range. It helps greatly reduce turbo lag due to the smaller turbo can produce boost much earlier than a super single or twin turbo setup can do. At lower RPM, the smaller turbo spools and produces boost - then when you reach a preset RPM or boost level, a staging valve opens and directs air to turbo 2(large one) and it now produces the boost for the engine. Usually, stage one turbo is turned off, or its boost is sent into the compressor intake of the stage 2 turbo to achieve a higher output pressure.
Do not confuse Biturbo / Sequential Twin Turbo with "Twin Turbo".
Twin turbo is having two EQUAL size turbo's. Each runs off its own cylinder bank in V or H type (boxer) engines, or off of a turbo manifoldon inline type engines. Both turbos share the load equally in producing boost air. (Like a dual core processor in your PC - both run at same speed, sharing the load equally) So, turbo lag still effects this type of setup, as both turbos will spool at the same time."

Okay? We good?


GT500, Bi-Turbo (both could be Twin Scrolling Turbos)


800hp goal? 150hp per liter? Displacement? 5.4???

 

[thePill]

PTWA 5.0 Coyote displacing the ol' 5.4 liters. The GT500 will make around 150hp per liter and be around 808hp. The torque WILL NOT match HP, likely around 650-700. The EB3.5 makes 170+hp per liter so 150hp isn't too far fetched.

The PTWA 5.4 will use a Bi-Turbo system. Both turbos within the system could be of Twin Scrolling nature. The 10 Speed Auto fits and works, the Raptor, Bronco and Lighting will share the drivetrain with the GT500.

$66,995
Under 4000lbs
808hp/650-700tg (trans limited)
Bi-Turbo V8 NOT a Twin Turbo (possibly both are Twin Scroll like the Audi)
Maybe NO CONVERTIBLE!!! Structure will be the next issue over 800hp/700tq.
KR Package coming (King of the Road or the GT500 version of an R)
Structure is related to the GT350.

 

[thePill]

All V8's will get a combined port- and direct-injection setup. Hopefully starting with the Voodoo2 (Hummingbird) and the Bi-Turbo Coyote (Fatboy).

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