2016 GT suspension recommendations

Discussion in 'Suspension, Brakes & Chassis' started by HourlyB, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. HourlyB

    HourlyB Member

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    Hello everyone,

    So, I've bought a 2016 GT, and come next spring, I want to upgrade the suspension on it.
    I've got a set up imagined for it, but I'm not sure if it's any good for what I need from it;

    I want for the suspension to be able to work in the Massachusetts winter with 235/50 R18 Bridgeston Blizzak WS80 tires, and then have improved cornering ability and handling using 255/35R19 tires on a 19x9 wheel at the front (might possibly go for 275/35R19 tires on a 19x9.5 wheel, but not likely) and 305/30R19 tires on a 19x11 wheel at the rear, most likely with Michelin Pilot Sport 4S being the tire.

    Comfort isn't hugely important, but I would prefer for the ride to remain practical for daily use on Massachusetts roads.

    Here's the set up;
    Would this set up work well for what I want it to, and is there anything else I should add to the list? I'm not looking to spend a lot more than $4k on the set up, at least on parts.
    Thanks in advance!
     
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  2. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    Very good start. The stop the hop package is incompatible with the BMR CB005, so pick one or the other. The only other thing I'd change is the shock mounts for the BMR SM760 to regain and slightly increase your rear shock travel, but having owned both the Steeda shock mounts and the BMR, I can say they're both good products and offer improved ride.

    FYI the Mustang handles MUCH better with a square or nearly square tire setup vs a large stagger (255 / 305 is considered very large). 285/35R19 all around on 19x10 wheels is a typical go-to setup for great handling and grip.
     
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  3. Roadway 5.0

    Roadway 5.0 Strassejager

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    I think you’re wise to do a minimum drop spring; you’ll need the wheel-well space so snow won’t badly accumulate in there. The ride will be nice too.
     
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  4. Bluemustang

    Bluemustang Well-Known Member

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    What is your priority on handling? The minimum drop is a good idea. It won't however help handling a lot because the rates are soft. The BMR SP083 Handling would be a better choice then. I daily drive mine.
    Rank your priorities on handling, ride quality, looks, practicality, etc., then come up with a plan to fit those needs. Personally I'd do the CB005 and skip the stop the hop kit. Some of that stuff doesn't do much for you. The subframe deflection is the main culprit. Changing things like toe rods, vertical links are way down the totem pole. You can't go wrong on the FP track dampers. You could run a lot of different spring choices with those dampers and have it be very good.
     
  5. OP
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    HourlyB

    HourlyB Member

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    Sorry, made this post on my lunch break, hence the delayed reply;
    Gotcha, any idea what the difference in effectiveness is between the BMR Cradle Lockout versus the Steeda kit? Because if it's not too much, I'll probably just get the BMR cradle and save ~$600. Is there anything in the kit you suggest I still get, or are they unnecessary overall like what Bluemustang is saying?


    Also, I already bought two 19x11 Forgestar F14's from my friend for $240 each, so I'm at least locked with the 305/30R19's on the rear. From what I've seen, most 19x10 wheels don't fit on the front, would I need to run a set of spacers to get them to fit in the front? (A 19x10 Forgestar F14 has a offset of 1.65 inches/42mm and backspacing of 7.10 inches/181mm, if that helps)

    Yeah, I don't trust MassDOT to maintain the roads anytime soon, lol.

    I'd rank my goals as;
    1. Handling/Feel (I want the Mustang to communicate what it's doing better/more, right now it's compliant but slightly numb, even in the "sport" steering setting)
    2. Grip (I put grip as separate to handling because if I have a lot of grip but don't know when it will let go, that grip is effectively useless)
    3. Practicality (If I bottom out over every pot hole I will feel guilty to the Mustang, also if this set up is not usable in winter that's also a bit of a hold up. I'm not planning on long/fast commuting in the winter, but still)
    4. Looks (only nice if it can be backed up by actual go ability)
    5. Ride Quality (My backside is made of iron and my seats of leather)
    How do the SP083 springs cope with potholes/bumps? Because we do have those aplenty in Mass, and I would like to avoid dinging either the undercarriage or the wheels.
     
  6. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    I'd just do the CB005 and call it a day. Maybe consider the BK081 too. I've seen more 19x10s that do fit than don't. +42 will just fit but will fit better with a thin spacer. Up to 5 mm is OK on stock studs.

    On handling feel, the extended ball joint lateral arms + bumpsteer kit from Steeda can't be overstated. It is a dramatic improvement in handling feel, steering feel, roll reduction and improves front grip.
     
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  7. Bluemustang

    Bluemustang Well-Known Member

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    +1 to the Steeda lateral arm and bumpsteer kit. This was the last significant change to my suspension that made all of it better. All of that that Bmac said. You don't want to believe it matters but it does.

    In order to increase the handling you need to increase the spring rate. It will combat body roll while also make the car more predictable which is the key. The minimum drop IMO is more to improve the stance without mucking up the front geometry too much. You need a higher rate spring. I would say at least 200/800 front and rear probably more. The SP083 rate for example is 250/980. Stock and BMR minimum drop is quite a bit less than that, I can't recall the exact figures. Going up to a rate like that will significantly improve your handling with the FP dampers. Well controlled and firm, planted. It's a good match together. The SP083s for example are surprisingly docile. And linear rate means more predictability. You will feel the road not be isolated from it. Potholes, etc. Will be worse. But it will be direct, up-down. I have driven in this in DC roads which suck, and it's bad, but so was my stock setup. Bad roads are bad roads. There is a compromise that needs to be made.

    The BMR mounts @BmacIL suggested- it'll help rear travel height which improves ride. I would second that motion.

    You want to feel the road and make the car predictable. Improve steering response, control the body and the weight shifts. You'll know where the tires are and they will talk to you. The CB005 helps tremendously and the right springs and dampers, maybe add a front bar (like GT350 one) you are in business. The BK081 bearings will just plant the rear even more and make it significantly more predictable.

    If you have the opportunity to carve corners enough of the time or if you decide you may want to try a track event later on (or not), and an upgrade like this will be well worth the money and occasional compromise to the ride.
     
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  8. OP
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    HourlyB

    HourlyB Member

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    Are these the Steeda parts you were referring to?
    Bumpsteer kit - https://www.steeda.com/steeda-s550-mustang-bumpsteer-kit-2015-555-8133.html
    Extended Ball Joint Front Control Arms - https://www.steeda.com/Steeda-S550-...-w-Extended-Ball-Joint-2015-2020_p_14088.html

    Also, this might be just me not understanding how cars are designed, but most tire set ups I've seen tend to have a larger overall front than the rear, sometimes by over half a inch. Is this normal? I know the lowering springs will effect the front more than the rear, but still this seems not intuitive to me.
     
  9. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    Yep, those are it. I believe they can be bought as a package.

    I'm not sure what you're referring to here...
     
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  10. OP
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    HourlyB

    HourlyB Member

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    Sorry, here's a visual. Tire 1 has the set up you suggested, 285/35R19 compared to Tire 2 305/30R19, would this not be accurate to how the actual setup would look?

    2019-09-10 19_12_01-Window.png
     
  11. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    If you can get a 305/35R19 that'd be even better. Not many in that size though. Michelin has the PSS which is amazing. I agree you'd normally want equal diameter front and rear or rear slightly larger.

    I'm used to talking track tires and 305/30r19 is a very typical size :).
     
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  12. OP
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    HourlyB

    HourlyB Member

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    Yeah, the Pilot Super Sport seems a bit on the extreme side haha. Also, doesn't look like it's available in 285/35R19. So the Goldilocks predicament continues.
    I've been able to find more tires that are 285/30R19 & 305/30R19 than 285/35R19 & 305/35R19. Would there be issues running a 285/30R19 on the front? Only issue I can see is it might be less comfortable.
     
  13. OP
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    HourlyB

    HourlyB Member

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    Are the Ford Performance Front & Rear bars the same as a GT350 bar? (https://www.americanmuscle.com/ford-performance-front-rear-sway-bars-1519-gt-ecoboost-gt350.html)
     
  14. Bluemustang

    Bluemustang Well-Known Member

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    They are different. The Ford Performance bars are larger and therefore stiffer. But stiffer doesn't always mean better. My advice is to leave the bar to last, to aid in tuning the balance. You won't know until you feel it and get used to the car's handling. A big upgrade to the suspension will change everything about it and leave the stock feel behind. Plus easier IMO to go up in stiffness than go down if your bar is already too stiff and on the outer adjustment hole.

    The GT350/R share the same 34mm diameter front bar. The R has a slightly stiffer rear bar than the 350. The Ford Performance bars are a bit stiffer on both front and rear than the GT350/R or PP car.
     
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  15. OP
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    HourlyB

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    #15 HourlyB, Sep 10, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
    Gotcha!

    So the first parts to install would be the wheels, FP Strut Tower Brace, FP Track Shock & Strut kit, BMR IRS Cradle, BMR Handling Springs (SP083) and the Steeda Control Arm/Bumpsteer kit.
    Then later on the BMR Rear Shock Mount, BMR Bearing Kit for the lower rear control arm and GT350 Sway Bars
     
  16. BmacIL

    BmacIL Enginerd

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    They're no more so than what you planned in the Pilot Sport 4S. The 4S is technically the replacement for the super sport, but the SS is still an absolutely amazing tire that they still produce. 285/30r19 is really small. I don't think you'd want those. I'd look at 275/35R19 first as an alternative to 285/35R19, or even consider PS4S fronts and PSS rears.
     
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  17. Bluemustang

    Bluemustang Well-Known Member

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    That would be a very solid foundation IMO. And it's been tried. I don't think you'd be disappointed. If you wanted to do something with the bar, get a stiffer front and start off on the soft (outer) hole. Keep the rear stock and see how it is.

    I'm not saying you need to get the SP083s necessarily. Only that you need a stiffer rate. However, I do think it would work well. It's a reasonable drop only 7/8" front and 3/4" rear. High linear rate, and less geometry change over stock because it's not slammed.

    Another spring that I think would work well is the Steeda sport linear (200/800 rates and 1"drop). That would not ride quite as firm obviously and drops the car a bit more. However, I think it is no surprise that the two best outgoing handling springs for mass produced aftermarket dampers for S550 (i.e. not custom or coilover) is the BMR SP083 and Steeda Dual Rate. Those are the go-to. Both drop the car around 3/4". For handling purposes keep the drop modest is important.
     
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  18. OP
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    HourlyB

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    My bad, I was thinking of the Pilot Sport Cup, which is the only tire available in 285/35R19 and 305/35R19. Not sure if I want a tire that's half a slick and over $400 each. The Pilot Super Sports actually look pretty much perfect in 275/35R19 and 305/35R19.

    Yeah, a large drop does lower the CoG, but it changes the suspension geometry and raises the risk of bottoming out, plus snow.

    Thanks for all the advice, I've already put a list together on Google Docs so I absolutely won't lose it.
     
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  19. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter

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    Don't get stuck on the notion of needing a rear tire size that starts with a 3 for street duty, or overlook the possibility of using 295/35-19's specifically for a little less stagger. 305 vs 275 for 30mm stagger is still quite a lot, especially for any non-forced induction car. Keep in mind that the PP2 cars come with 10.5" front and 11" rear wheel widths and 305/30-19 tires all around.

    Those SP083 springs are roughly comparable to GT350R rates (rear springs are actually a bit firmer than the R). The wheel rates all fall in the 215 - 240 lb/in range which is somewhat firm without being harsh. I'm also in the "less drop = better" camp, partly for geometry reasons and partly because lowering the CG doesn't gain you as much benefit as the resulting change in appearance may lead you to expect.

    You're not all that far from the Thompson or Whiskey Hill (Palmer) road courses. Or the road course at NHMS once you get past the greater Boston area.


    Norm
     
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  20. NightmareMoon

    NightmareMoon Well-Known Member

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    Pilot Super Sports are being phased out for the Pilot Sport 4 S, which is definitely available in 285/35R19.
     
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