2016 Camaro: How will Ford respond

[K-Roll302]

At some point I think Ford will need to increase displacement to compete (or increase revs, but I feel that will be too expensive). I therefore wouldn't be surprised to see a cross-plane 5.2 engine at some point, making around 450 HP.
-T

I wish I could dream something up like that and have it become reality.:(:frusty:

No way in hell will that engine make it into any Mustang that isn't a GT350/R unless it becomes a crate motor. *crossing fingers and dreaming about an Ecoboost V8 that will never happen*

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[OppoLock]

500 at the crank. Everyone likes to refer to hp at the crank instead of wheels which is what matters.

About the same are the Mustang with basic mods making 440-450 at the wheels.


And no, I don't think Ford needs to respond and play a HP game. No one knows yet, beyond mere rumors, what the Camaro will weigh. The 2015 SS with a 6.2L only made 426hp, less than the 5.0. All we have are rumors and speculation that the Camaro lost weight- similar to the Mustang which didn't when finally displayed.

Even with the LS1, Chevy will cannibalize its Stingray sales making the SS close in performance. Even though the LS1 in the Stringray makes 460, I wouldn't expect the Camaro to.

Those are good numbers! I can't wait to see what the aftermarket is like for the new Camaro.

HP wise maybe, but the LT1 has a 460 lbft torque in stock, if the engine is mod friendly you can get 500 hp and 500 lbft at the same time which might even be comparable to a Voodoo! I m not sure if high rev Voodoo is going to have even 460 lbft of torque in stock forget about Coyote!

I don't think the Voodoo will ever have a chance in matching torque output; that's basically a displacement game more than anything. It will have a big advantage with gearing and a large RPM band though.

From what I recall based on looking at the corvette forums, an LT1 with intake, headers, and tune puts down ~450 to the wheels, maybe a little more. Seems to be around 400-410 stock.

IMO it's about 15-20 HP more than a Coyote with similar mods. It also gains quite a bit with cams (or rather, cam).

It's true that the LT1 makes awesome torque. It's a big displacement engine with a pretty high compression ratio, so that's not too surprising. It does fall off a little up top, more than the Coyote from what I've seen. Still, should be very good for performance on the street due to the ample low end.

For those who like automatics, I'm sure GM will use the 8-speed as well. Overall, I think the Camaro will have a powertrain advantage for a while.

At some point I think Ford will need to increase displacement to compete (or increase revs, but I feel that will be too expensive). I therefore wouldn't be surprised to see a cross-plane 5.2 engine at some point, making around 450 HP.

I think GM might have a bit of a handling advantage, but much of that will come down to the number of options they would offer. Given how hard GM has been pushing the handling angle, I think they will be working hard to make sure the new Camaro is closer in performance to the outgoing 1LE than to the original 5th Gen SS that was regarded as being an understeering pig.

Overall, I think the Camaro will be a great car, and will probably win magazine comparisons over the Mustang. Will be exciting to see what Ford ends up doing.

-T

The idea of Ford increasing displacement for their volume model V8 seems unlikely in this day and age. I would figure the addition of tech to improve efficiency would make more sense, like DI before making a switch over to F/I which is probably inevitable in the distant future.

Agreed on the handling aspect of things. GM has been offering aggressive suspension and tire packaging which makes for great numbers and driving experiences. I'm not so concerned with stock figures and suspension characteristics on a "versus S550" scale since that's the easy stuff to modify. I don't doubt that they'll come out with a package that one-ups the GT's PP if only for the sake of magazine bragging rights.

 

[Sasuketr]

From what I recall based on looking at the corvette forums, an LT1 with intake, headers, and tune puts down ~450 to the wheels, maybe a little more. Seems to be around 400-410 stock.

IMO it's about 15-20 HP more than a Coyote with similar mods. It also gains quite a bit with cams (or rather, cam).

It's true that the LT1 makes awesome torque. It's a big displacement engine with a pretty high compression ratio, so that's not too surprising. It does fall off a little up top, more than the Coyote from what I've seen. Still, should be very good for performance on the street due to the ample low end.

For those who like automatics, I'm sure GM will use the 8-speed as well. Overall, I think the Camaro will have a powertrain advantage for a while.

At some point I think Ford will need to increase displacement to compete (or increase revs, but I feel that will be too expensive). I therefore wouldn't be surprised to see a cross-plane 5.2 engine at some point, making around 450 HP.

I think GM might have a bit of a handling advantage, but much of that will come down to the number of options they would offer. Given how hard GM has been pushing the handling angle, I think they will be working hard to make sure the new Camaro is closer in performance to the outgoing 1LE than to the original 5th Gen SS that was regarded as being an understeering pig.

Overall, I think the Camaro will be a great car, and will probably win magazine comparisons over the Mustang. Will be exciting to see what Ford ends up doing.

-T

Agree with you except to benchmarking their ss performance to match 1le! Everyone who reviewed that car said 1le is not comfortable enough for a daily driving. The suspension is too stiff for daily commuting! The one advantage of the gtpp is its a trackable but awesome daily grand tourer! On the other hand the only brand sticking strictly to the muscle car roots has been Dodge! I give them kudos for that! The srt8's are amazing and hell cats are mind blowing! God bless America and the sweet V8 power!

 

[Trackaholic]

I wish I could dream something up like that and have it become reality.:(:frusty:

No way in hell will that engine make it into any Mustang that isn't a GT350/R unless it becomes a crate motor. *crossing fingers and dreaming about an Ecoboost V8 that will never happen*

I'm not talking about the Voodoo engine which I agree will not make it into a standard product (hence the comment about expense). I'm talking about a bored out version of the 5.0 with the PTWA tech (although maybe that is still too expensive).

Although as mentioned above, maybe staying with the 5.0 and going with DI will have a better effect on both power and fuel economy than a change to a 5.2, which would only really affect the power.

-T

 

[Thompyt]

PTWA -Plasma Transferred Wire Arc?

 

[K-Roll302]

I'm not talking about the Voodoo engine which I agree will not make it into a standard product (hence the comment about expense). I'm talking about a bored out version of the 5.0 with the PTWA tech (although maybe that is still too expensive).

Although as mentioned above, maybe staying with the 5.0 and going with DI will have a better effect on both power and fuel economy than a change to a 5.2, which would only really affect the power.

-T

Ya threw me off when you said FPC engine, so I assumed you were talking about the Voodoo.

What is PTWA?

 

[Sasuketr]

Ofcourse Ford can put the 5.2 Voodoo in a regular gt why not? Price? Well tech is improving everyday and seeing what competition is offering they won't have any other option! Look at GTPP, it almost have the Boss302 engine and it can outhandle Boss on the track, i think the 5.0 is almost at his limit and certainly people still will be craving for v8! Maybe an ecoboost v6 might be an option too but nothing can replace the symphony of the v8 muscle!

 

[Trackaholic]

Ya threw me off when you said FPC engine, so I assumed you were talking about the Voodoo.

What is PTWA?

I said cross-plane 5.2, not flat-plane. Sorry for the confusion.

PTWA is the "Plasma Transferred Wire Arc" cylinder bore lining method that Ford came up with (along with a supplier). They used it on the GT500 engine, and they will use it on the Voodoo engine. They also let Nissan use it on the GT-R engine. It lets them put a very thin, hard coating on the cylinder bores rather than use a steel liner. This lets them make the bores larger while maintaining the modular engine bore spacing. Not sure how expensive the process is though.

Anywhoooo, I think Ford will have their work cut-out for them when trying to match the power of the LT1. However, matching the reliability should be pretty easy, so there is that.

Don't think Ford will ever match the torque, unless they really increase the engine size or go with forced induction.

Didn't realize the 1LE had been criticized for street handling. I thought MT liked it better than the GTPP for the street, but they were probably not talking about comfort. I drove a friend's 1LE and thought it was fine, but my Z is pretty stiff at this point (and old, which makes it a rattle-trap, so any new car will probably seem very solid and compliant compared to what I am used to). I do agree that the GTPP is trying to walk a fine line between track performance and street comfort, and they did a great job compromising. I feel like they could have gone a bit more towards track, but again, my standards are probably a bit out of whack.

-T

 

[hailstate94]

http://www.hotrod.com/news/1503-lt1-confirmed-for-2016-camaro-ss/
Well this could get interesting...

 

[valentinoamoro]

http://www.hotrod.com/news/1503-lt1-confirmed-for-2016-camaro-ss/
Well this could get interesting...

Awesome. This 'Maro will be a BEAST it seems. Cant wait to see the photos.

 

[hailstate94]

Agreed. And if it did actually lose weight the stop light battles aren't gonna be pretty

 

[valentinoamoro]

Agreed. And if it did actually lose weight the stop light battles aren't gonna be pretty

Honestly stop light battles at the 320HP+ range, esp in RWD are a function of traction. I've had wheel spin on 3rd gear, forget first and second. Now if we're competing at a stop light lets say with the WK1 Grand Cherokee SRT8 all bets are off - those things went like a bat out of hell from a standing start).

I think the Mustang has always been a more fun/playful driver and better DD than the Camaro, while GM has a better track focus (on some versions) and higher absolute grip numbers. We'll see how this round shapes up - the Stang is pulling incredible G's from the base EB or the GTPP with I think .97-1G across the range.

Regardless, some incredible cars out there. Dont forget the upcoming ATS-V as well! That thing should be an insane drivers car, although I dont exactly like the looks.

 

[5.0 435]

From the spy shots I've seen the Camaro sucks big time. The C piller looks like a convertible hardtop. The direct injection along with the cylinder deactivation and oil in the filter is causing problems with current C7s. The new Zo6 is overheating after 3 hot laps. Lot of people @ the Z06 forum are not happy and it's not even summer yet. After 7 hot laps it goes Into limp home mode.
That's what GM calls track capable. There is also no lap times for the Ring cause it can't complete a lap without pulling timing .
Should be a interesting next couple of years for sure. There's even talk about a mid engine Corvette for 2017 or 2018. Have you ever noticed how many new corvettes still have chrome geezer wheels.
I'm old and I don't like them anymore.

 

[Tm@c1965]

I think it might...

Even with the LS1, Chevy will cannibalize its Stingray sales making the SS close in performance. Even though the LS1 in the Stringray makes 460, I wouldn't expect the Camaro to.

They might do what Dodge did. The Hellcat makes more power than their APEX car...the Viper.

They too may see that having more power in the lower classed, and heavier cars is a non-issue. Especially when one is a supercar and the other a muscle car.

 

[Grimace427]

There's even talk about a mid engine Corvette for 2017 or 2018.

The talk has been dismissed by GM engineers. The rumors start around every new model reveal.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/115031690591/corvette-engineer-says-mid-engined-version-is-not-being

Chevrolet Corvette engineer Tadge Juechter has announced they aren't developing a mid-engined version.

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