2015 mustang weight?

[design1stcode2nd]

Why is it so hard to believe the 400lbs weight-loss? This is what a turbo four 2+2 should weigh. Look at others like the BRZ/FRS or WRX STI. The STI is a 4 door with AWD, 18’s, brembo’s and barely cracks 3,400lbs.

The next Mustang will be around for 8+ years so it needs to account for the fuel economy mandates of 2020-2025. The best way to do that is to lose weight.

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[KZStang]

Good points.

One key point to keep in mind about CAFE. CAFE standards going forward are applied individually to each car based on its "footprint" which is calculated based on the vehicle's wheelbase and track, in square feet. This means overall length and width are mostly irrelevant and just "dead weight" that is not factored in to CAFE calculations.

So the current Mustang with a 107.1" wheelbase and 62.9" rear track would have a footprint of 47 square feet. This is roughly the same square footage as the '10 Honda Civic which has a target MPG of about 36mpg by 2016. The requirements get increasingly more stringent as the new standards are applied in the upcoming years.

This creates a strong incentive for the manufacturer to not decrease the wheelbase/track so much so that it can not reach its targets, especially for a performance vehicle. It also makes it that much more important to wrap the car as tightly as possible around the wheelbase/track, with as little overhang and optimal aerodynamics since a car with equal wheelbase/track with 2ft additional length in overhangs has the same requirements as one without it. So when you read about the length/width possibly being hacked off of the S550 or the roofline having more rake, it makes sense generally since it is one of the easiest ways to improve fuel economy for weight savings and aerodynamics, and more specifically makes sense that it is removed from the overhangs and body instead of the wheelbase/track.

 

[Lavien]

Interesting I always thought they used overall size/weight to calculate it. Thanks for the info. Then it definitely makes sense to just reduce overhangs while keeping axles and wheelbase the same.

This might also help if they wanted to adapt the Control Blade IRS from the Falcon to the S550 since it has similar track width.

 

[bullets]

Smart/efficient use of space has never been a strength of the Mustang. Glad to see that will probably change very soon. It can lose a healthy amount weight and inches before it starts to impact the interior.

 

[Melino]

They're at slightly different angles, so it'd be hard to match them up. What is easy to do is use the license plate. Since they are all 12" wide, I created a scale bar underneath the track. Enjoy!

Brilliant!

BTW the license plate is cut off a bit on the right side by the camo, u can tell because its missing the curve on the edge.

Is there a point of reference we can use to measure to side view.....

 

[HTownStang]

It is funny how just a few days ago everyone was thinking 100 pounds max now everyone is convinced 300 or even 400 is possible.... because Edmunds said so.

 

[Thed]

It is funny how just a few days ago everyone was thinking 100 pounds max now everyone is convinced 300 or even 400 is possible.... because Edmunds said so.

Really, the 400 comes from comparing the current GT to the new EB Stang, the new GT should weigh roughly 200 LBS less.

 

[S550Boss]

if they wanted to adapt the Control Blade IRS from the Falcon to the S550 since it has similar track width.

Which, for the hundredth time in these forums, they did not. The new IRS is of no relationship to the Falcon IRS - nor do we want it to be. The Falcon IRS was good for it/s time, but it was also rejected over 10 years ago for the 2005 because it's a collection of cheap stampings, resulting in poor geometry.

This, and the absurd "Fusion suspension" rumors should stop, before they start getting quoted by the bigger press at large. And for now untruths would play right into the hands of Ford who want to confuse the issue at this point for competitive purposes and to keep S197 sales going strong right until the end.

 

[S550Boss]

Really, the 400 comes from comparing the current GT to the new EB Stang, the new GT should weigh roughly 200 LBS less.

Exactly: like-to-like it'd be 200 pounds, not 400. And thats assuming the exact same engine and transmissions... any 8-speed autos or a stronger 6-speed manual for the V-8s (that probably won't make it in time) would add weight. As would options like power seats, thousand-watt sound systems, nav systems, sunroofs, etc. Even a hopefully-standard tile and telescope column would add more weight. Anything and everything all adds up. And then there are crash standards, including Europe's pedestrian crash standard.

And remember that the EcoBoost isn't necessarily a base low-weight stripper. If they use the model they've used on some of the other cars, it'd be an upmarket offering, and that means additional upmarket furnishings and options - all of which increase the weight. And it will be the car representing the Mustang for Europeans, who don't want a low-rent version of what they already know is a premium product. Their small cars always have more options in them and available than you'd see in most small cars over here. "Premium" doesn't have to mean "large" - which is what North Americans are finally understanding.

The current Focus ST, for example, has several options and option packages available in Europe that are not offered here - such as the Recaro rear seats or the power folding side-view mirrors. Going back in time, the Mondeo ST170 (brought to the US as the Contour SVT) was loaded in comparison to the stripper we got here. Same for the Focus ST170 (brought to the us as the SVT Focus) which was similarly loaded (and, BTW, don't think that those really were ST-engineered products - they were purely products of Ford of Europe).

So expect the EcoBoost 4 cylinder Mustang to be "very well off". And if it is, the 3200 range for it may never be achieved.

 

[GTsquid]

I'm not really sure your point. You're saying Europeans want more premium so they will load it up with options that adds weight...

Why are we talking about options? The stock advertised weight is all they (Ford, and as a result the gov't with respect to how the stock car meets CAFE) care about. How people load up their cars is out of their control and frankly has little bearing on anything besides making them more $. Most people will be happy when they hear about a 4 banger that is 400 pounds lighter (than current GT). Its not going to be w/out basic comforts that's for sure and anyone that wants power folding side mirrors or cameras should expect to pony up for it in a car that costs $25K(?) and has the added benefit of keeping cost down for those that dont want or need it.

I have no doubt that the Europeans know what they're getting themselves into when buying a Mustang and they wont be expecting a cheap man's Bimmer.

 

[S550Boss]

Yes, the base weight is what matters here and I can see the 4 cylinder EcoBoost in the 3200 range, if it's offered as an econo model and not a premium model. We won't know for sure until next spring.

It's good you raised the beemer point... I have to wonder how this will be seen against that. In Europe they get a lot of other engines in beemers - right down to a 1.6 liter. Ford could match this, but it going overkill instead (compared to the excellent BMW 2 liter turbo) with a more powerful 2.3 liter engine (presumably - nobody has yet confirmed the displacement). Inevitably this will be compared against one 3 series or another... it will be interesting to see this done in European car magazines and sites (I don't know whether to look forward to what Clarkson will have to say or not!).

Standards are also being raised as we speak - look at Volvo's all-new 306 HP super- and turbo-charged 2 liter 4 cylinder. They've just jumped up well above BMW in the 2 liter range.

On the other hand in Australia the Mustang (note - delayed until 2016) is being pre-positioned at a higher level, and the focus so far appears to be on the high end V-8s.

It will also be interesting to see what range of engines are offered in both places. Europe certainly won't be a 4-cylinder only country, and Australia a V-8 only. The product planners would know this now, since engineering is certainly doing calibrations for each set of requirements.

 

[StangFX]

I think the Philippines officially offers both the V6 and V8 and sells a tiny amout each year. If thats any indication, Europe and Australia should be plenty more volume to offer all trims.

The only thing I could see different is maybe an I4 instead of the V6. One question - will we see the s550 being tested in Europe or Australia?

 

[Falc'man]

Yes, the base weight is what matters here and I can see the 4 cylinder EcoBoost in the 3200 range, if it's offered as an econo model and not a premium model. We won't know for sure until next spring.

It's good you raised the beemer point... I have to wonder how this will be seen against that. In Europe they get a lot of other engines in beemers - right down to a 1.6 liter. Ford could match this, but it going overkill instead (compared to the excellent BMW 2 liter turbo) with a more powerful 2.3 liter engine (presumably - nobody has yet confirmed the displacement). Inevitably this will be compared against one 3 series or another... it will be interesting to see this done in European car magazines and sites (I don't know whether to look forward to what Clarkson will have to say or not!).

Standards are also being raised as we speak - look at Volvo's all-new 306 HP super- and turbo-charged 2 liter 4 cylinder. They've just jumped up well above BMW in the 2 liter range.

On the other hand in Australia the Mustang (note - delayed until 2016) is being pre-positioned at a higher level, and the focus so far appears to be on the high end V-8s.

It will also be interesting to see what range of engines are offered in both places. Europe certainly won't be a 4-cylinder only country, and Australia a V-8 only. The product planners would know this now, since engineering is certainly doing calibrations for each set of requirements.

Is Mustang confirmed for 2016 to Australia?

 

[S550Boss]

That's what they said in the big press conference in Australia last week. I just assume they are giving it an extra year to develop the right hand drive model. Maybe that means spring of 2015, model year 2016. In any case, it's coming... and hopefully the import duty won't be too high. You folks should finally be able to get a Mustang that doesn't cost a zillion dollars.

I was there last November again... downtown Melbourne this time. I was very pleased to see huge numbers of all the Falcons and Commodores going by... especially when the hot ones with the big wings came by. The Mustang will go over very well there, albeit only 2 doors.

 

[Falc'man]

That's what they said in the big press conference in Australia last week. I just assume they are giving it an extra year to develop the right hand drive model. Maybe that means spring of 2015, model year 2016. In any case, it's coming... and hopefully the import duty won't be too high. You folks should finally be able to get a Mustang that doesn't cost a zillion dollars.

I was there last November again... downtown Melbourne this time. I was very pleased to see huge numbers of all the Falcons and Commodores going by... especially when the hot ones with the big wings came by. The Mustang will go over very well there, albeit only 2 doors.

I was at the event and they didn't give a timeline, all they said was it's now coming.

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