2015+ Mustang Audio Setup ???'s

[Angrey]

Just an FYI, the KTP-445U can be bridged to 90W x2 @4 Ohms in addition to running the front stage active using the 45W x 4 option. Either option still meets your goal of "little more power, some clarity and simple/compact"

One option would be to spend more on the front stage which matters the most (investing the cost of the rear speakers towards the front speakers) and drive them with 90W and see if you even miss the rear fill. Some people do and some if not many don't.

I am assuming when you said Powerboost above you meant Powerbass. IMHO, it seems backwards to be spending quite a bit more on the rear stage then the front stage. The Powerbass eases installation but who are the speakers primarily for, the driver or the passengers in the rear? In the end its your decision but I thought I would respectfully offer one perspective. As other's pointed out in this thread there are other speakers that go in pretty seamlessly some which may be more efficient at using the power that's available to them.

There is a way to run the fronts on your Alpine amp and the rears on the factory radio's internal amp but I won't get into it since it does require Forscan changes and a modification of the Alpine harness but neither are really difficult IF you wanted to take a chance on a strong front stage and add rear fill if you actually missed it. I just mention it so you know you have an out without having to buy another amp if you decide to try front stage only and need to add the rears back at a later time.

Some people try to test having no rear fill by running their factory radio with the balance all the way forward for an extended period of time but you are still on factory power so it really doesn't represent what it would be like with a proper front stage. The factory front stage just doesn't fill the cabin the way 90W with good speakers would and its why I think many people still think they need it, the front is too under powered allowing you to miss the rears. Many of the best sounding systems I sat in during an SQ competition last year didn't have rear fill at all. I realize you are not building a high end system but there is something to be learned about where it may be best to put your money. One approach let's you build on an install if you decide to get more into the car audio part, the other approach may cause you to start over discarding most if not all of what you did the first go around and no harm no foul if you never move forward with more but in the long run I believe you will only be as happy as the strength of the front stage. Lots of threads about people upgrading only parts of their system and being disappointed rather then addressing DSP, power, and speaker quality all at once.

I will say this though, I picked up two used KTP-445U in new condition for $65 each. Ironincally, I bought these from an SQ guy who wanted to experiment with rear fill and pulled them out when he decided he didn't need the rear fill.

Although I am setting my system up with more power then these, these were cheap enough that I want to do a little car stereo lab with these and do some A/B comparisons, run with and without rear fill, bridged and unbridged, etc...

Thanks for the insights.

I'd be interested in learning how to power all 6 speakers (4 on the alpine and 2 on the OEM puny amp). Which 2 speakers do you think would be best to remain on stock amp power?

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[MegaG]

Thanks for the insights.

I'd be interested in learning how to power all 6 speakers (4 on the alpine and 2 on the OEM puny amp). Which 2 speakers do you think would be best to remain on stock amp power?

I would power the rear deck from the factory amp. Even if you want rear fill you don't want the rear fill to pull the overall sound stage back from the front. Just as an fyi, some of the nicer systems that do use rear fill use less power and even limit the frequecy they run as the higher frequencies are the ones that pull the sound stage back the most.

Is your plan to do the work yourself and are you willing to dive into Forscan or not?

Did you decide to invest in the DSR1 or other DSP? The crossovers on the Alpine are limited so it would not work as well to run the front stage active from the Alpine without the DSR1 but it can be done using capacitors on the tweeters.

The answer to these question will help determine how to wire everything up and how to modify the Alpine harness.

A couple of important points,

1. To get the most out of your DSP you need to do some system tuning. Is this something you planned on doing? The DSR1 will not tune itself. Many people have upgraded systems without using a DSP and with a DSP but without tuning and then were not satisfied with good reason. It all works together.
2. You will not have the DSP features for the rear speakers with this approach but that is not critical. You can use the DSR1 to time align and eq the front based on when your signals arrive upfront but that will require committing to point 1

A couple of general comments to help paint a picture

The factory default of a base radio is to use the internal amp for the front and rear speakers

This means you have a high level output that can feed the DSR1 or the Alpine amp directly using the high level signals. The set-up you purchased is designed to do this.

This is the easiest approach as you can wire everything up without getting into Forscan.

If you are willing to make Forscan changes, you will need to invest some time and money to make those changes.

If you want to move forward with the DSR1 there are threads on this forum where that's been done which you should seek out.

If you haven't already, checkout the DSR1 here https://rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/dsr1/ and on Crutchfield and read through all of the install info.

You can get up and running without the DSR1 and see how you like it but just be aware you are risking not being satisfied, especially if you do not touch Forscan to defeat the bass roll-off. If you want to take that approach, IMHO, there is no point to running the front stage active as you will have minimal crossover control, no time alignment or eq ability etc. Then you may as well stick with your original plan of driving the front and rear channels from the 4 channel amp and meeting your goal of simplicity. Its the reason one of my early questions above is whether or not you are going to add the DSR1. I am also assuming you want to stick with the equipment you've already purchased.

 

[MegaG]

Even though you've already purchased your equipment you may still find some useful info in this thread

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/th...-6-speaker-configuration.149200/#post-3049934

 

[OF5.0]

I would power the rear deck from the factory amp. Even if you want rear fill you don't want the rear fill to pull the overall sound stage back from the front. Just as an fyi, some of the nicer systems that do use rear fill use less power and even limit the frequecy they run as the higher frequencies are the ones that pull the sound stage back the most.

Is your plan to do the work yourself and are you willing to dive into Forscan or not?

Did you decide to invest in the DSR1 or other DSP? The crossovers on the Alpine are limited so it would not work as well to run the front stage active from the Alpine without the DSR1 but it can be done using capacitors on the tweeters.

The answer to these question will help determine how to wire everything up and how to modify the Alpine harness.

A couple of important points,

1. To get the most out of your DSP you need to do some system tuning. Is this something you planned on doing? The DSR1 will not tune itself. Many people have upgraded systems without using a DSP and with a DSP but without tuning and then were not satisfied with good reason. It all works together.
2. You will not have the DSP features for the rear speakers with this approach but that is not critical. You can use the DSR1 to time align and eq the front based on when your signals arrive upfront but that will require committing to point 1

A couple of general comments to help paint a picture

The factory default of a base radio is to use the internal amp for the front and rear speakers

This means you have a high level output that can feed the DSR1 or the Alpine amp directly using the high level signals. The set-up you purchased is designed to do this.

This is the easiest approach as you can wire everything up without getting into Forscan.

If you are willing to make Forscan changes, you will need to invest some time and money to make those changes.

If you want to move forward with the DSR1 there are threads on this forum where that's been done which you should seek out.

If you haven't already, checkout the DSR1 here https://rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/dsr1/ and on Crutchfield and read through all of the install info.

You can get up and running without the DSR1 and see how you like it but just be aware you are risking not being satisfied, especially if you do not touch Forscan to defeat the bass roll-off. If you want to take that approach, IMHO, there is no point to running the front stage active as you will have minimal crossover control, no time alignment or eq ability etc. Then you may as well stick with your original plan of driving the front and rear channels from the 4 channel amp and meeting your goal of simplicity. Its the reason one of my early questions above is whether or not you are going to add the DSR1. I am also assuming you want to stick with the equipment you've already purchased.

The dFO2 harness for the DSR1 does all of the Forscan changes automatically, including changing the headunit’s outputs to low-level. Five Star Car Stereo has a YouTube video on this:

I believe that the OP thinks that there is a stock amplifier in the system. There isn’t. The headunit in the base 6-speaker system is the “amp.” Since the dFO2 harness converts the headunit’s high-level outputs to low-level signals, you’ll need amplifier channels to run the rear speakers.

 

[Angrey]

Stock radio to dFO2/DSR1 to Alpine. Connect the Alpine system like page 10 of the Alpine system’s owners manual (the aftermarket headunit flow diagram).

The DSR1 should be set up like this:

I know I'm reviving this old thread, but I'm just getting around to this installation.

1) I bought an entire new setup for 8" screen (OEM unit from Hextall) that I'm going to install and do the forscan tweaks first. (as I understand it, the DSR1 will reflash that and save the last settings).

2) After a couple of hours tonight, I had all the harnesses and connections laid out on the floor and after much brain damage I think i have it pretty well licked. It's going OEM unit to DFO2 harness, into DSR-1 then out using the RCA outputs as shown on page 10 of the Alpine instructions (aftermarket).

2a. The RCA inputs/outputs don't exactly color match/line up. The DSR1 has all red and white pairs. The Alpine jumpers are grey+white, (front) green+purple, (rear) and red+white (sub). I don't want to overthink it, but does it matter for the green/purple which one goes to white and which goes to red?

2b. The DSR1 has two blue wires (amp turn on out and amp turn on in) and the harness for the Alpine powered unit has a "remote" barrel connector (to blue wire). Are these going to remain disconnected or unused? I have no interest in a remote to the amp/woofer so as long as everything will work with them insulated/taped off, just don't want to skip something important.

3) I set up the DSR1 using the computer application and presets for my 2016 mustang. I downloaded the RF Perfect Tune app, but I don't see anywhere to interface the DSR-1 and change the arrangements like the screens you referenced. Does that come after it's installed in the car? If so, how does it interface, on the screen or through an app? Bluetooth?

You've been such an incredible help. Thanks in advance for your time. If this all works correctly I plan on doing a thorough write up. Even though it's been a little complex, I think it overall simplifies the whole system to not have to mess with wired amps and such.

 

[OF5.0]

I know I'm reviving this old thread, but I'm just getting around to this installation.

1) I bought an entire new setup for 8" screen (OEM unit from Hextall) that I'm going to install and do the forscan tweaks first. (as I understand it, the DSR1 will reflash that and save the last settings).

2) After a couple of hours tonight, I had all the harnesses and connections laid out on the floor and after much brain damage I think i have it pretty well licked. It's going OEM unit to DFO2 harness, into DSR-1 then out using the RCA outputs as shown on page 10 of the Alpine instructions (aftermarket).

2a. The RCA inputs/outputs don't exactly color match/line up. The DSR1 has all red and white pairs. The Alpine jumpers are grey+white, (front) green+purple, (rear) and red+white (sub). I don't want to overthink it, but does it matter for the green/purple which one goes to white and which goes to red?

2b. The DSR1 has two blue wires (amp turn on out and amp turn on in) and the harness for the Alpine powered unit has a "remote" barrel connector (to blue wire). Are these going to remain disconnected or unused? I have no interest in a remote to the amp/woofer so as long as everything will work with them insulated/taped off, just don't want to skip something important.

3) I set up the DSR1 using the computer application and presets for my 2016 mustang. I downloaded the RF Perfect Tune app, but I don't see anywhere to interface the DSR-1 and change the arrangements like the screens you referenced. Does that come after it's installed in the car? If so, how does it interface, on the screen or through an app? Bluetooth?

You've been such an incredible help. Thanks in advance for your time. If this all works correctly I plan on doing a thorough write up. Even though it's been a little complex, I think it overall simplifies the whole system to not have to mess with wired amps and such.

Angrey,

I need more information. You said that you bought the Hextall 8” screen conversion. Which stock amp did you get with your conversion, the 9-speaker or 12-speaker version? The dFO2 harness was meant only for the 6-speaker 4” screen APIM. If you didn’t receive an amp with your conversion, I will assume that the APIM did not get changed (the unit in the dash behind the radio screen).

The DSR1 RCA pairs are configurable via the setup screen, so keep this in mind: white = left, red = right. For the Alpine unit you are trying to use, white = front left, grey = front right, green = rear left, purple = rear right. Sub colors should be white = left, red = right.

The Alpine amp will need a remote turn-on, unless you are using signal sensing as the way to have the amp activated. Which Alpine unit are you using? Is it the add-on powered 8” subwoofer that mounts up front underneath the passenger dash that also includes a brick-style 4-channel amp? If so, you do not need a DSR1, but that system can be used with one. The DSR1 will allow for DSP functions, so I’d encourage its use.

The PerfectTune app connects to the DSR1 via Bluetooth.

In the PerfectTune app, you can program how you want the DSR1’s outputs to function. Just remember to save your changes. Below, I have circled the icons to use to change the DSR1’s inputs and outputs :

 

[Cathul]

The DSR1 cannot be configured while offline.

 

[WavnAtCha]

I am looking for a sub box for my 2020 convertible. It did not come with the sub box in the trunk. I can find them for the fastback, but I'm not sure it will work (size/shape) in a convertible. Please send suggestions as to where I might find this item or let me know if the fastback version will fit nicely in a convertible.

 

[Angrey]

Angrey,

I need more information. You said that you bought the Hextall 8” screen conversion. Which stock amp did you get with your conversion, the 9-speaker or 12-speaker version? The dFO2 harness was meant only for the 6-speaker 4” screen APIM. If you didn’t receive an amp with your conversion, I will assume that the APIM did not get changed (the unit in the dash behind the radio screen).

The DSR1 RCA pairs are configurable via the setup screen, so keep this in mind: white = left, red = right. For the Alpine unit you are trying to use, white = front left, grey = front right, green = rear left, purple = rear right. Sub colors should be white = left, red = right.

The Alpine amp will need a remote turn-on, unless you are using signal sensing as the way to have the amp activated. Which Alpine unit are you using? Is it the add-on powered 8” subwoofer that mounts up front underneath the passenger dash that also includes a brick-style 4-channel amp? If so, you do not need a DSR1, but that system can be used with one. The DSR1 will allow for DSP functions, so I’d encourage its use.

The PerfectTune app connects to the DSR1 via Bluetooth.

In the PerfectTune app, you can program how you want the DSR1’s outputs to function. Just remember to save your changes. Below, I have circled the icons to use to change the DSR1’s inputs and outputs :

I feared it might cause problems. Here is the new screen. I'm assuming the new APIM is screwed to the back?

Is it something I can use the hextall harness plugged into the APIM and then wire/splice the connector? It doesn't look like the hextall harness was going to work on the non screen side anyway (based on the female and male configuration). Which is a bummer. I waited a while for it and went through a whole VIN verification I thought it would be plug and play.

 

[Angrey]

I feared it might cause problems. Here is the new screen. I'm assuming the new APIM is screwed to the back?

Is it something I can use the hextall harness plugged into the APIM and then wire/splice the connector? It doesn't look like the hextall harness was going to work on the non screen side anyway (based on the female and male configuration). Which is a bummer. I waited a while for it and went through a whole VIN verification I thought it would be plug and play.

 

[OF5.0]

Did the Hextall conversion kit include an amplifier module to be installed in the driver’s side kick panel? If not, then I assume the adapter cable routes the new 8” screen‘s APIM outputs to interface with the stock speaker wiring. I then assume that the dFO2 harness should work.

 

[Angrey]

Did the Hextall conversion kit include an amplifier module to be installed in the driver’s side kick panel? If not, then I assume the adapter cable routes the new 8” screen‘s APIM outputs to interface with the stock speaker wiring. I then assume that the dFO2 harness should work.

It has the proper keyway for the connector, but the slots aren't correct. I'll know more in the next couple of days, but based upon the APIM female pin connector and the DF02 or the Alpine, neither work, only the hextall harness. For the other end, it looks like again, they're close, but not the same. I'm betting when I go to install the hextall harness it won't line up (so I was probably gonna have to do surgery anyway). I just need help splicing the hextall harness (non-APIM end) to the Alpine aftermarket harness. I'm trying to count pins/wires now

 

[Angrey]

The hextall harness has 16 wires on the non-APIM end, but he used the larger connector format. The Alpine connector is smaller, but has more wires (I imagine some of them are doubled up for the "spare" outputs). How can i find a road map to the pin/connector layouts?

 

[OF5.0]

The hextall harness has 16 wires on the non-APIM end, but he used the larger connector format. The Alpine connector is smaller, but has more wires (I imagine some of them are doubled up for the "spare" outputs). How can i find a road map to the pin/connector layouts?

Are you using Alpine’s PSU-300MTG kit?

 

[Angrey]

Are you using Alpine’s PSU-300MTG kit?

Yes, that was your last recommendation. But I compared both the DFO2 and the Alpine (both harnesses) and it seems I was going to have to do surgery on the Hextall harness either way (even if I didn't run any of it. Either Hextall gave me the wrong harness or both the Alpine and DFO2 are wrong.)

I've located the wiring diagrams.

The hextall harness has 12 wires. The Alpine harness (receiver) has more, but I'm assuming some of them are joined in the connector because they're "spare" channels on the RCAs.

I'll try to attach some photos.

Also, you mentioned crossovers before. The rear speakers I purchased are coaxial, so they have a range of 100-20k, so am I correct in assuming I don't need a crossover or filter (and the internal capacitor can either handle it or we could tune it out with the DSR1). The front as you pointed out does run parellel, like a Y, but other threads indicate it has no crossover, just a 4uf capacitor and the base filter was done by the OE amp. Do I need to add a crossover? The powerbase are supposed to be plug and play and didn't come with a crossover.

I know this is all irritating. I'm a smart guy, but this stuff is way out of my comfort zone. Thanks for your help and your time, I know you have better shit to do than explain this on forums.

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