Need advice on my audio setup

[krishelnino]

This is going to be little long post, but it's my experience trying to improve the 12-speaker Shaker Pro system. I need some advice in perfecting what i currently have.

Front: Focal Performance 165AS3 3-way components
Rear: Focal Access 165AC co-axial speakers
Sub: JL Audio 8W3v3-4 8" 4-ohm subwoofer
Amp: AudioControl LC-6.1200 6-channel car amplifier — 125 watts RMS x 6
DSP: Helix DSP .3

I'm running a passive setup; for the fronts i'm using the crossovers supplied by Focal. I initially went with Rockford Fosgate DSR-1 module + Maestro F03 harness but that DSP was very buggy and had issues with signal output levels. After dealing with RF and Maestro customer support for over a month, i was frustrated and gave up. The installer offered a refund so bought a Helix DSP .3 from eBay. Wow, i realized how much difference a DSP could make. It felt like the speakers came alive after installing the Helix. A downside is there a lot of rattles all over the car haha, which have to be fixed eventually

But anyway i'm unhappy regarding the actual sound quality itself, the mids and bass is very good. However there's a lot of harshness and once I turn the volume beyond 15 or so it becomes hard to listen for a while (the amp gains are set very low like at 1/4th of max). I know I made a mistake getting the Focals; i didn't do enough research prior to purchasing them. It seems they're notoriously very bright whereas I prefer a warm and balanced sound with controlled bass.

I'm at $2500 with this setup and without throwing away further cash, i'm looking at the following economical routes in hope of improvement.

i) Ditch the rear co-ax speakers and go active for the front 3-way speakers. This means i would need another mono-amp just for the sub. Would going active mean i would have more control in tuning them and probably be able to tone them down to make those sound good ?

ii) Change out the front 3-way Focal 165AS3 for something else ? What 3-way speakers would you recommend like JL Audio, Morel, Hertz, etc. ?

iii) Try to tune the current setup with a different installer.

I'm not looking for a competition system just something that sounds good. I'm in Michigan and there aren't very good installers here. I found one with good reviews and decent prices. Also, the guy was pretty knowledgeable so decided to try them out. I still have issues like hiss and slight signal noise at volume 0, also the midrange speakers keep touching the doors. They are unable to fix these issues. So i know this installer isn't great, but it's the only option that I currently have to work with.

Thanks

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[morgande]

If your tweeters are too bright you can easily attenuate them. Most crossovers have a switch that will allow you to do this. Check your documentation and see if you do.

if you don’t...your still in luck. If you have a DSP you can make this adjustment active. Being that you already have a 3 way and a DSP is there a reason you didn’t go active in the first place?

Easy and simple fix (if you can) is attenuate the tweeters using the crossover. Better fix is to address it with the DSP.

My personal argument is this: a sharp sounding tweeter is far easier to tame than a soft one. Cut before you boost as a general rule. You don’t need to swap the components just to fix the issues you have. Your throwing away money.

given you have a 3-way I’m surprised your getting enough satisfactory output from than 8” sub. You running ported?

 

[morgande]

How do you have the Audiocontrol wired? Since your not using the DSR-1 anymore? And I assume your not using the center chanel at all anymore?

 

[krishelnino]

If your tweeters are too bright you can easily attenuate them. Most crossovers have a switch that will allow you to do this. Check your documentation and see if you do.

if you don’t...your still in luck. If you have a DSP you can make this adjustment active. Being that you already have a 3 way and a DSP is there a reason you didn’t go active in the first place?

Easy and simple fix (if you can) is attenuate the tweeters using the crossover. Better fix is to address it with the DSP.

My personal argument is this: a sharp sounding tweeter is far easier to tame than a soft one. Cut before you boost as a general rule. You don’t need to swap the components just to fix the issues you have. Your throwing away money.

given you have a 3-way I’m surprised your getting enough satisfactory output from than 8” sub. You running ported?

Yes, the crossovers that came with Focals had 3 settings on the switch. -3 dB, 0, +3 dB. I believe they were set to -3dB when installed.

Well i didn't plan on getting a DSP in the first place hence the reason i didn't go active from the start. I was looking for the simplest way to upgrade and bypass the factory amp. The installer had experience with RF DSR-1 + F03 harness and suggested i go with it. The DSR-1 theoretically was very nice to be able to change EQ on the fly. However the output voltage was very weak and there were some firmware issues that Maestro tried to address. I tried for a month but in the end just returned it and got the Helix after reading many positive reviews.

I wanted to go active but mean getting another 4 or 6 channel amp and also the Helix DSP .3 has only 8 channels of output. I would need 9 channels (6 for front, 2 for rear and 1 for the sub). The Helix DSP Pro has 10 channels of output but that is much more expensive. In the end i decided against it.

As for the sub, they just re-used the stock enclosure. I don't like much bass, I prefer slightly warmer and balanced sound.

 

[krishelnino]

How do you have the Audiocontrol wired? Since your not using the DSR-1 anymore? And I assume your not using the center chanel at all anymore?

Nope i don't have a center channel at all (before i went aftermarket i replaced it with Infinity Ref 3.5"). That would be more work and not sure if it's worth it.

 

[zero_chance]

Yes, the crossovers that came with Focals had 3 settings on the switch. -3 dB, 0, +3 dB. I believe they were set to -3dB when installed.

Well i didn't plan on getting a DSP in the first place hence the reason i didn't go active from the start. I was looking for the simplest way to upgrade and bypass the factory amp. The installer had experience with RF DSR-1 + F03 harness and suggested i go with it. The DSR-1 theoretically was very nice to be able to change EQ on the fly. However the output voltage was very weak and there were some firmware issues that Maestro tried to address. I tried for a month but in the end just returned it and got the Helix after reading many positive reviews.

I wanted to go active but mean getting another 4 or 6 channel amp and also the Helix DSP .3 has only 8 channels of output. I would need 9 channels (6 for front, 2 for rear and 1 for the sub). The Helix DSP Pro has 10 channels of output but that is much more expensive. In the end i decided against it.

As for the sub, they just re-used the stock enclosure. I don't like much bass, I prefer slightly warmer and balanced sound.

Rear speakers shouldn’t be needed with the equipment you have, you should be able to tune your setup with that DSP to a point you won’t even know the rear speakers are gone.

 

[morgande]

Yes, the crossovers that came with Focals had 3 settings on the switch. -3 dB, 0, +3 dB. I believe they were set to -3dB when installed.

Well i didn't plan on getting a DSP in the first place hence the reason i didn't go active from the start. I was looking for the simplest way to upgrade and bypass the factory amp. The installer had experience with RF DSR-1 + F03 harness and suggested i go with it. The DSR-1 theoretically was very nice to be able to change EQ on the fly. However the output voltage was very weak and there were some firmware issues that Maestro tried to address. I tried for a month but in the end just returned it and got the Helix after reading many positive reviews.

I wanted to go active but mean getting another 4 or 6 channel amp and also the Helix DSP .3 has only 8 channels of output. I would need 9 channels (6 for front, 2 for rear and 1 for the sub). The Helix DSP Pro has 10 channels of output but that is much more expensive. In the end i decided against it.

As for the sub, they just re-used the stock enclosure. I don't like much bass, I prefer slightly warmer and balanced sound.

I got you. So you went with the DSR-1 of the installers recommendation. On paper it does look like it solves a lot of problems but seems like real-word results are a mixed bag. Quite a few people have complained about the same issues you saw...low output and buggy.

 

[krishelnino]

I got you. So you went with the DSR-1 of the installers recommendation. On paper it does look like it solves a lot of problems but seems like real-word results are a mixed bag. Quite a few people have complained about the same issues you saw...low output and buggy.

The Maestro customer support was very good. They were quick to respond and even sent out beta firmwares for me to test. However, the RF side was disappointing, they refused to acknowledge there was even a problem. Yeah I thought it would work well but anyway happy that I got over it. The difference between DSR1 and Helix is night and day though !

 

[morgande]

The Maestro customer support was very good. They were quick to respond and even sent out beta firmwares for me to test. However, the RF side was disappointing, they refused to acknowledge there was even a problem. Yeah I thought it would work well but anyway happy that I got over it. The difference between DSR1 and Helix is night and day though !

this is what makes me nervous about going with the DSR-1. Too many horror stories about issues and RF basking telling you to take a hike. I’m a big fan of their power series amps but seems like the old RF company died a long time ago.

I was contemplating going with the DSR-1 but using it as pasthrough and feeding it to an audio control DSP or JL. It becomes a $300 preamp at that point but it’s the cleanest solution I can come up with that doesn’t involve me using a FORScan code.

 

[morgande]

Being that you ditched the DSR-1, how do you have your Helix wired? Are you using a completely custom harness or are you using the iDataLink one and just grafting RCAs onto it?

 

[krishelnino]

this is what makes me nervous about going with the DSR-1. Too many horror stories about issues and RF basking telling you to take a hike. I’m a big fan of their power series amps but seems like the old RF company died a long time ago.

I was contemplating going with the DSR-1 but using it as pasthrough and feeding it to an audio control DSP or JL. It becomes a $300 preamp at that point but it’s the cleanest solution I can come up with that doesn’t involve me using a FORScan code.

It's pretty easy. You just use the idatalink Ford aF03 harness and modify it a little bit to get the preamp outputs. I think there's even a post or thread on here that shows how to do it. That's how my installer did it.

I think if yours is a Premium car with factory amp, the ACM is already sending out line level signals. You don't have to modify anything. All you have to do is disable the Factory EQ in Forscan.

 

[krishelnino]

Rear speakers shouldn’t be needed with the equipment you have, you should be able to tune your setup with that DSP to a point you won’t even know the rear speakers are gone.

yup, i'll give this a try. ditch the rears, get a mono-amp for the subwoofer and 6-channels of active at the Front. If i can't tame them, i'll just swap the tweeters to something else at that point. Fingers crossed

 

[Cathul]

To be honest, i would go with a 2-way active up front for now and ditch the rears. This way you can use 4 channels of your amp for full active front and two channels bridged for the sub, which btw. fits totally fine in the stock enclosure (ask me how i know). ;)

Btw. i use a DSR1 as an integration device into a Mosconi DSP am (Mosconi D2 100.4 DSP) and have no problems with way.
When working correctly the DSR1 is a very good integration device as most DSPs and amplifiers don't have Maestro AR compatiblity.
I know, technically the DSR1 and/or AR is not really needed in a 12-speaker stock Mustang as the ACM is giving you variable line output from the get go, but us european cars don't have the remote enable in the same plug as the US Mustangs do, so we would have to splice in into the stock cabling which i wanted to avoid at all cost. Therefor the DSR1 which was available over her ein Germany. Thank god i don't have any problems with it though.

 

[UserName]

I would also recommend not using the rears and going active on the front stage. I am using a Helix DSP and can turn it all the way up with no issues, and my goodness is it loud and crystal clear. Can’t even tell the rear speakers aren’t there. You will have an amazing soundstage if the tuning is good. It’s almost holographic when done right.
I think this is the only way to really take control of your drivers and get the sound you want besides replacing drivers.

 

[krishelnino]

I would also recommend not using the rears and going active on the front stage. I am using a Helix DSP and can turn it all the way up with no issues, and my goodness is it loud and crystal clear. Can’t even tell the rear speakers aren’t there. You will have an amazing soundstage if the tuning is good. It’s almost holographic when done right.
I think this is the only way to really take control of your drivers and get the sound you want besides replacing drivers.

That is what i have decide. I'm going fully active for the Front 3-way components and ditching the rears. If this doesn't work out, i'll be swapping the tweeters with something else.

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