2 part question on adding power

[Emt1581]

In the future I'll be adding power to my car. Still not sure which device/system I'll go with. But I'm curious about a couple of things.

If bumping the wheel horsepower up to around 800 +/-...what does that do to 0-60 time, 1/4 time, and maybe increasing the top speed of the car? Is it a significant difference that allows the Mustang to keep up with factory Corvette's and Lambo's or does it just yield a more powerful car that is still in a different class from significantly more expensive cars?

Then when increasing power, what work is required so the car runs really well vs. slowly (or rapidly) destroying itself due to the increase? I see cars between 700 and 800 hp that seems largely stock except for maybe axles and sometimes trans. Then cars at 1000-1300 hp I don't know much about what all has been swapped but I'm guessing more has been upgraded than has been left alone mechanically speaking.

Thanks!

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[205.0]

In the future I'll be adding power to my car. Still not sure which device/system I'll go with. But I'm curious about a couple of things.

If bumping the wheel horsepower up to around 800 +/-...what does that do to 0-60 time, 1/4 time, and maybe increasing the top speed of the car? Is it a significant difference that allows the Mustang to keep up with factory Corvette's and Lambo's or does it just yield a more powerful car that is still in a different class from significantly more expensive cars?

Then when increasing power, what work is required so the car runs really well vs. slowly (or rapidly) destroying itself due to the increase? I see cars between 700 and 800 hp that seems largely stock except for maybe axles and sometimes trans. Then cars at 1000-1300 hp I don't know much about what all has been swapped but I'm guessing more has been upgraded than has been left alone mechanically speaking.

Thanks!

To answer the first part:

At 800 WHP, your mph should be around the mid 140's in the 1/4 mile, maybe low 140's. Top speed is gearing limited, but it will reach it much faster than with less power. Any stock corvette, including the new ZR1 will not be able to keep up with most 800 whp 5.0's, and that includes all types of lambos/ferrari. Those are all low-mid 130's cars.

 

[ahl395]

important to note if you're talking about WHP or BHP.

Many people on stock engines or mostly stock engines running 600-800whp. Some have things fail others dont, really just luck of the draw. Most people over that mark though do have built engines, the more hp the less time the stock motor lasts usually.

The most common problems with boosted cars in the reasonable power range (600-800whp) is the rings. Long pulls makes alot of heat and breaks the rings, then you lose compression.

 

[Emt1581]

important to note if you're talking about WHP or BHP.

Many people on stock engines or mostly stock engines running 600-800whp. Some have things fail others dont, really just luck of the draw. Most people over that mark though do have built engines, the more hp the less time the stock motor lasts usually.

The most common problems with boosted cars in the reasonable power range (600-800whp) is the rings. Long pulls makes alot of heat and breaks the rings, then you lose compression.

...and I'm guessing they aren't cheap to replace right?

I turn my own wrench for pretty much everything except transmission work. However, that's on beaters. Not sure I'd be as confident with the 12k sensors and intricate workings of the 5.0.

Good to know and I've read that about the rings. Is there a bulletproof fix for this that can maybe be done when installing the power adder....maybe titanium rings or something along those lines...to prevent the issue down the road?

Thanks!

 

[ahl395]

...and I'm guessing they aren't cheap to replace right?

I turn my own wrench for pretty much everything except transmission work. However, that's on beaters. Not sure I'd be as confident with the 12k sensors and intricate workings of the 5.0.

Good to know and I've read that about the rings. Is there a bulletproof fix for this that can maybe be done when installing the power adder....maybe titanium rings or something along those lines...to prevent the issue down the road?

Thanks!

Replacing the rings is an engine rebuild. There's nothing you can do to "fix" them aside from opening up the engine. Some people do open up the engine and open up the ring gap (which is the problem, the gap is too tight from factory), and reassemble it. But at the point of either doing all that work yourself, or paying all that labor, most people upgrade the other parts in the engine as well so it's all "bulletproof". You don't want to pay (or do) all that labor twice if one of the other stock parts breaks two days later.

Only other thing you can do is try not to do super long highway pulls or 1/2mi racing. Personally I added methanol injection on my car as it's known to cool down the combustion chamber (and add power). I feel like this will definitely help the rings IMO. But plenty of people have zero ring issues, I'm just saying it's a possibility and a weak point. Same deal with the OPG/CG.

When I got quotes for a built engine it was between $9-15k.

 

[Emt1581]

Replacing the rings is an engine rebuild. There's nothing you can do to "fix" them aside from opening up the engine. Some people do open up the engine and open up the ring gap (which is the problem, the gap is too tight from factory), and reassemble it. But at the point of either doing all that work yourself, or paying all that labor, most people upgrade the other parts in the engine as well so it's all "bulletproof". You don't want to pay (or do) all that labor twice if one of the other stock parts breaks two days later.

Only other thing you can do is try not to do super long highway pulls or 1/2mi racing. Personally I added methanol injection on my car as it's known to cool down the combustion chamber (and add power). I feel like this will definitely help the rings IMO. But plenty of people have zero ring issues, I'm just saying it's a possibility and a weak point. Same deal with the OPG/CG.

When I got quotes for a built engine it was between $9-15k.

So if the rings have issues I could be looking at a $15k repair bill?? Yeah, I'm going to want to do whatever is necessary to avoid that!! The methanol. I've read about that. Is that something specifically to cool (prevent the ring issue) in addition to adding power or is that a significant power adder by itself?

Thanks

 

[ahl395]

So if the rings have issues I could be looking at a $15k repair bill?? Yeah, I'm going to want to do whatever is necessary to avoid that!! The methanol. I've read about that. Is that something specifically to cool (prevent the ring issue) in addition to adding power or is that a significant power adder by itself?

Thanks

Well you could, but I should point out that it's rare. There's only a handful of cases on the forum of it happening, so I'm not trying to scare you into thinking your rings will go the moment you supercharge. I'm just saying be mindful it can happen when adding power, never fool yourself saying "i'll be fine at x amount of hp" because it isnt true. I broke a 6R80 at 630whp/500wtq which is pretty rare and even within the 6R80's torque rating.

Methanol can add power to an FI car and does so partially by cooling. It cools the IAT, adds octane, and allows for more boost or timing. In turn it lowers cylinder pressure/temperature. I haven't seen any concrete testing or evidence it will save the rings on 160mph pulls, but I think it will definitely help. Heres a good video on meth injection.

[ame]

 

[Crackerjack17]

...and I'm guessing they aren't cheap to replace right?

I turn my own wrench for pretty much everything except transmission work. However, that's on beaters. Not sure I'd be as confident with the 12k sensors and intricate workings of the 5.0.

Thanks!

Don't be scared by the sensors. It's not that complicated. The wiring harness looks complicated, but it only goes one way, you cant mess it up. And, nothing is incricate in the motor. I just rebuilt mine myself, but obviously I did let the pros handle the bottom end. I understand everything that needs done in the shortblock, but I don't have the tools or machines or experience, to do it right. Getting the crank balancer on/off can be a pia. but with the right tools it's not too bad. Bolting on the heads is straightforward, but takes time with a lot of reading and triple checking eveything.

And, could you pull the engine and open up the ring gaps? Sure. But the effort it takes to do that, you might as well put in decent rods/pistons.

If I had the chance to go back in time... I would pull the engine, sell it and build one from the ground up.

 

[GT2]

FWIW Seems the 2018 coyote is a bit better. Hard to know until more builds go through, but for now it seems that the newer coyote is a bit better. Maybe the rings are gapped more consistently, maybe the DI is helping out internal temps enough to help the rings, maybe both.

I would like to take an 18, P1X, upgraded intercooler, 6 rib, headers, e85 and let her eat. That should probably be high 600's maybe low mid 700's. For a daily type of car, I'm sure it will last plenty. But I don't beat on my street cars.

 

[Tommy V]

FWIW Seems the 2018 coyote is a bit better. Hard to know until more builds go through, but for now it seems that the newer coyote is a bit better. Maybe the rings are gapped more consistently, maybe the DI is helping out internal temps enough to help the rings, maybe both.

I would like to take an 18, P1X, upgraded intercooler, 6 rib, headers, e85 and let her eat. That should probably be high 600's maybe low mid 700's. For a daily type of car, I'm sure it will last plenty. But I don't beat on my street cars.

I would not say that just yet as their are already a few on here that lost motors and had major failures on very low unmodified cars.

 

[Boduke0220]

When my car had the TVS on 10 psi and E85 I walked several hellcats, a Heads/cam C6Z a stock C7Z and even an Audi R8 V10.

My car was literally bone stock with a tvs, fuel system, Lund tune and axleback lol

You can compete with some higher end cars in terms of shear power, but after 800rwhp I where it gets really expensive if you want good reliable power

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