bmr cb005 and links still hopping

Diff*

robmustang201528 said:

How the NVH with the different inserts?

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They do amplify the gear whine enough to be heard inside the car, and I can now hear my torsen diff "click" when it locks in. That being said tho, the gear whine isn't any louder than what my exhaust is and I barely even notice it anymore. It almost sounds like a SC whine coming from the back end. The click is the only thing that bugs me but I just deal with that. The NVH honestly varies from car to car.

Thanks man. I think my tires have alot to do with my hop to.illustrate it tike for some new rubber. It down past the parks in between the groves on the tire.

Sorry about the typo stupid phone smh

Yeah I'd get those swapped and see how that helps first. I went with some sumitomo htr z 3's and so far I couldn't be happier with them

What air pressure are you running in your rear tires? Lowering the pressure may help some provided you are not too low already.

Shocks are the main problem here. You aren't going to get rid of the hop completely unless you upgrade the rear shocks.

derieuz said:

Shocks are the main problem here. You aren't going to get rid of the hop completely unless you upgrade the rear shocks.

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What's the best option for a daily driver here?

mauleed said:

What's the best option for a daily driver here?

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I haven't really looked into anything, I planned on getting BC Racing Coilovers when I could with a custom spring rate, But I would get Viking's entry level adjustable shock, BMR has a post somewhere with the setting you should start off with and then you adjust it from there.
http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=1547&superpro=0

I thought the vikings were a drag racing oriented shock. Am I mistaken?

If i change the rear shocks do i need to change the front also ?

I want Viking shocks once they resolve the rattling issue some folks have.

In my experience the hop is greatly reduced from happening but when it happens it's a harder feeling due to the nature of what the parts do.

For now I have BMR Cradle lock out, rear springs and Vertical Links, Steeda Adj Toe Links, subframe centering pins and subframe braces.

Dampeners are the biggest help in this matter and I will be going back to Viking for this once the new versions are out.

In summary the hop should be less but when it does it will hit harder. Totally normal

Jmeo said:

In my experience the hop is greatly reduced from happening but when it happens it's a harder feeling due to the nature of what the parts do.

For now I have BMR Cradle lock out, rear springs and Vertical Links, Steeda Adj Toe Links, subframe centering pins and subframe braces.

Dampeners are the biggest help in this matter and I will be going back to Viking for this once the new versions are out.

In summary the hop should be less but when it does it will hit harder. Totally normal

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Are the subframe braces your referring to the same as the Steeda IRS braces?

Unfortunately, this can and will happen to some.

As Jmeo stated, due to the nature of the parts....they can/will help and can/will hurt the impact of wheel hop.

Some users of the CB005 tout that the kit completely eliminated their wheel hop. Many state that their overall experience with the kit is money well spent, and that the wheel hop has been significantly decreased. And there are also people who claim that the wheel hop has worsened.

Wheel hop is very specific to each person and their car. I can hop in one of our mostly stock PP cars and go beat on it and make the tires shake like crazy. I do it all the time actually, and break parts in the process. But, I can also control wheel hop in that same car too - by my driving style.

Of course, then there are so many other factors. Since there will be a million people that read this, I will post some factors that lead to more intense wheel hop. (this list is things outside of the suspension deflection/etc that I will mention below)

-Rear Negative camber. Less tire patch, more spin and more hop
-High rear tire pressure. More pressure means more spin and more hop
-High humidity. Damp means spin, which means more hop
-Cold surface. Takes the "stick" out of the surface to tire contact
-Aggressive driving. The more aggressive the driving, the more spin and hop
-Transmission. Manual trans will hop more than automatic

And anything else that promotes tire spin.

Wheel Hop is simply the process of tires loosing traction, THEN the hop occurs when they are fighting to regain traction. That is why you will see black marks that are choppy when wheel hop or tire shake is present.

There are many many factors involved. For example, a racecar that has a massive racing tire and $5000+ worth of suspension, sometimes gets wheel hop. In the racing world we call it "tire shake". When this happens, most often it is eliminated or lessened by rear shock adjustment, and sometimes geometry change.

The key to eliminating wheel hop in the S550 is to reduce the deflection within the rear IRS cradle and suspension system, AND achieve more traction.

Stabilizing the suspension and the IRS, and Traction enhancement are two different things. Some components, like shocks for example, will help promote traction AND help stabilize the suspension. In some cases, the parts that are used to stabilize the IRS...can lead to less traction, and even more wheel hop, when the supporting mods are not used.

Here is a quick list of things that I have confirmed to help with reducing wheel hop in the S550.

Rear Cradle Stabilization:
-Cradle Lockout Kits OR Cradle Bushing Kits

Rear Differential Stabilization:
-Diff Lockout Kits OR Diff Bushing Kits

Shocks
-Shocks that provide better high speed shaft control, will reduce wheel hop and promote traction by slowing down suspension oscillation

Springs
-A stiffer rear spring, as long as it has a damper to control it, will also help reduce oscillation.
THIS is where a proper spring design, AND the proper selection makes a big impact. I see so many people just grabbing springs and using stock dampers, without looking into specifics. For example, if you throw an 800-990 Progressive rear spring on a non PP car.....lol... You are throwing a very poor spring choice in the car, and may very well get a horrible ride and more wheel hop.
*On the OEM non-PP dampers, I don't like a rear spring rate over 780/in.
*On the PP dampers, I don't like a rear spring rate over 850-900lb/in.
Anything above those rates, especially the progressive springs, the dampers lose their ability to control suspension oscillation.

RLCA Front Bushing
-This piece.....this piece shows an EXTREME amount of deflection under load and during wheel hop conditions. I would say that this is actually one of the more important pieces to upgrade.

Vertical Links
-These are so popular, but they are one of the last pieces of the puzzle IMO, when looking for improved traction and wheel hop. The reason they are one of the most common parts you see is because they are cheap, easy to install, and one of the least engineered pieces for the car. I see some companies promoting them and making such a big deal about them. I get it.....but when someone calls me and asks me, I usually have this down on the list. Of course it usually depends on what the customer wants. Sometimes, due to price and ease of install....if someone wants to avoid NVH, I tell them to try the CB005 and the Vertical Links....then let's go from there. (I recommend DIFF solutions before Vert Links)

Outer Toe Bearing Upgrade
-FRPP makes this piece. At $75...it is a no brainer. Toe deflection in these cars is horrible. When we first started our testing, that was one of the things we were most concerned about. The Toe change during loaded situations can lead to very inconsistent IRS performance, and also leads to more severe wheel hop. The last place you want inconsistency is in your wheel/tire contact patch to the road.

Tires
-While this is one of the last on my list, it is actually #1 IMO for the average guy looking for better performance. But I think that is somewhat common sense on any vehicle in the world. If someone wants more traction (which leads to less wheel hop) tires....tires are the BEST bet for a quick solution. The downfall to "just tires" though, is erratic suspension geometry changes without the mods above. Many people when these cars were first out and started being raced, called me for advice. Their situation went like this "I installed Drag Radials on the car and this thing is all over the place". Well, the got traction....with all those rubber parts and the car wants to go all over the road from the movement of the rear IRS components.

Alignment
-The least amount of negative camber, the better, in terms of straight line wheel hop.
-Toe...these cars like a little toe in. I use .15 in (.30 total) on my cars
-Alignment is VERY important on these cars. Very.


OP, feel free to call me if you have any questions.