Dave Pericak speaks a bit about the Mustang's future

[Fly2High]

Biggsy,
I think I can understand what you mean as per your generations aspirations.

I was born in the early 70's just as the gas crisis started and the end of muscle cars occurred. For me, these muscle cars were the hand me downs friends and relatives older brothers would drive. We always thought of restoring a car. By the time the 80's hit and I could drive, the cars were small, light and didn't have any power. We still desired cars of the late 60's and early 70's. I think for my generation, we knew what a big engine sounded like and possibly got one for a short time as a hand me down. None were meant to last. Now that we drove, there wasn't much to be had and the new models were lousy. Over the years things got better and it is only the last ten years where finally American had some reliability and a good powerful car. Also, our salaries were able to afford them.

I think of those who are Millenials and think the cars of their youth (80's) were largely terrible and it wasn't until you got to the late 90's or early 2000's before things got better. I could see them losing interest in cars. A buddy who was born in the late 80's looks at late 90's Supra and S2000 as THE car to own. Of course, today, there are no cars like this. Almost everything has gotten big and fat.

For those before me and around my time, we desired power. Today, everything has power so the car doesn't need to look or be a certain kind of car to be powerful. Every SUV, truck and people hauler has lots of power. I also think we have gotten to the point where we have too much power such that most hardly use all they have for more than a blip.

Much like the cartoon , The Jetsons, suggested, everyone will be flying around in vehicles that largely all look the same. The only thing they got wrong was that we are still on the ground and no one cares about aerodynamics and weight. We will all drive big boxes on wheels with torquey electric motors. It is box shaped so as to enclose the largest volume of mobile, personal space. Those with the most mobile space, wins!!

I think each generation is just a product of their times.

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[mrbillwot]

Now there are many recent immigrants who don't care about cars, .

\

Now there are white bread multigenerational Americans who DGAF about cars....or rock & roll.
According to my dealer pinning these trends on immigrants would be presumptuous nonsense. I asked - who buys these one lunger's (non top line Mustangs): I was told: 1st & 2nd generation immigrants. He explained, and it made sense, Its a sign of prestige and Americana. They don't care if its bleeding edge - they care that its a sign that they're doing all right and are living the American dream. I liked hearing that given a Kia "good enough" in that regard and at the other end BMW/Mercedes might be the show off option.
Without them for us to build our GT350's on we'd be SOL.

 

[green97probe]

In June of 2011, I bought my first Mustang, a 2007 GT at the age of 24 (needed a cosigner, but I made the payments). I worked hard through college to get the degree that helped me land a real job where I could keep working hard, and it felt so good.

26 months later, I got my 2010 GT on my own.

In April of 2018, I bought my first 2018 GT. Traded it in on my current GT that August.

My point is, there are young people out there who like muscle cars, and have a desire to work.

We're not all social media addicted, attention seeking, poor work ethic types.

It's not all doom and gloom.

The best thing we can do to ensure the future of the Mustang is to buy them new.

 

[vbondjr1]

It's not as terrible as it may seem. Honestly it's about time Ford did something different anyway. We all knew the day would come when the V8 would be no longer but Ford has and has had a lot of other performance vehicles out there that don't have a V8. We have a 660hp 3.5L Ecoboost in the Ford GT that America knows about along with the 450hp/510tq variant of the 3.5L Ecoboost in the Ford Raptor. Ford also not too long ago had a lineup of inline-6 Turbo engines under the Barra engine family in Australia. The Falcon XR6 Sprint had a 435hp/424tq 4.0L I-6 Turbo that could over boost to 496hp/479tq. An Ecoboost variant of that even without over boost should be able to easily match the hp numbers of the current Coyote 460hp 5.0L and matched to a 10-speed auto or DCT the car would be a very balanced machine. The same thing with the B5254T3 2.5L Inline-5 cylinder Turbo. Even back in 2011 the engine made 345hp and had an amazing sound to it. Let's just say if Ford uses what they've learned with the the Focus RS 2.3L Ecoboost, this engine could easily see 390hp/390tq in a new base model mustang. Another thing is that Ford should start using different designations for their performance stuff. Designations like the XR5, XR6, ST, and RS need to become the performance designations globally. It's time to drop the Shelby Designation and the rest of the stuff that was specific to the US. It's also time for a four-door version of the mustang just like what BMW has for their 8-series. Something that blends some of the elements of the current GT500 and Mach-E together along with new stuff.
Another thing that seriously needs to happen is that Ford Performance needs to change their catalog up to cater more to the new twin turbo performance market and also expand to utilizing more aftermarket companies than just place like Borla. Companies like AWE, Greddy, HKS, AEM, Cobb, Milltek, Tein, Whiteline, ROH wheels, BBS, Rays wheels, Sparco and several other companies that provide OE Levels of quality with aftermarket levels of performance. If Ford is going to continue the Mustang, it needs to continue it with the Global performance market in mind, not just the American one. Same thing with the Bronco, the Ranger, the Focus and the Mondeo. Honestly, the Bronco is a cool idea, but the Ford Everest would have been a much better choice because it won't have to live up to "expectations" of the old Bronco. If Ford had Brought the Ranger and the Everest up with the Wildtrak packages along with the Raptor packages done up like a lot of the ones in Australia are, Ford would have been golden. To be honest, If Ford were to get rid of the mustang and bring out a global Falcon with RWD on the CD6 chassis with the engines and trim levels I mentioned above, Ford would be doing well. If Ford wanted to do a RWD based performance coupe, bring back the Sierra on the CD6 platform and give it a 390hp 2.5L inline-5 turbo with a 10-speed/7-spd DCT and AWD. Ford has so many decent things going on but they're all scattered and they miss out on being great because someone, somewhere is not seeing the big picture. Honestly, If ford were to get rid of Lincoln, they still have the Vignale luxury trim and Limited trim models to add to certain vehicles of the lineup and do way better than Lincoln has done in years. I think a Vignale Falcon, Vignale Explorer, Vignale Edge and Vignale Expedition would do so much better than what Lincoln is currently doing and Ford wouldn't have to worry about all the different materials for separate vehicles lines. it's like GMC's Denali line. Give the Vignale Falcon, Explorer, and Expedition the 3.0L Hybrid 494hp/660tq powertrain with all wheel drive and the Vingale Edge the regular 400hp 3.0L Setup with the FWD based AWD system and call it a day. As far as electric vehicles, the Mach E is a cool start, bring on the Ford EVOS as another Electric performance vehicle and bring on the Ford Atlas as Ford's electric pickup truck, add a few more electric vehicles like the return of the CMAX and that's cool.

 

[Copperhead73]

It's also time for a four-door version of the mustang just like what BMW has for their 8-series.

Now you can just you shut your damn mouth!

Serenity now!

 

[Fly2High]

Now if Ford can only make them so they do not tick, rattle , quake and any other unusual noises that make new car buyers run for the hills!!

I had an Oldsmobile which lasted 16 years and even with one cylinder down was able to beat a late 80’s Camaro while the Olds was running over a long series of speed bumps( Camaro was on smooth pavement). Unfortunately they no longer make cars.

I had a Dodge Daytona Turbo Z and that had a mandatory 7/70 warranty. It was a test car. I found out why. It broke down yearly. If the tranny didn’t have issues, the head gasket would blow or the clutch would wear out fast due to alignment issues. This made me swear off Dodge. At least it was a manual and it limped along for 11 years - mostly because I could not afford to replace it!
Then came a ‘95 Maxima. 9 reliable years but it was no faster than the Dodge and the seats were terrible. Entire body hurt driving it to college. Then the tranny died. No first and no reverse. Lousy automatic. Only bought it b/c the wife liked them and might share the car. Last time I considered that! Luckily, Toyota gave me a grand on trade in for a Scion TC.

Scion was great.... until Toyota touched it. It had a 2.4 and had the dreaded leaky piston issue. It would leak oil into the combustion chamber at a rate over 1qt/1000 miles. Toyota replaces the pistons but messed up the oil delivery and in 1500 miles wrecked the block. The got a short block and the messed up the counter balance shafts. Then the ripped both outer CV joint boots. They fixed it all on their dime. This was all while I only had 34,000 miles on the car. It was ten years old with just shy of 50K on it when I noticed it was again burning oil. Swore off Toyota. At least their service. At least it was a fun stick with lots of usable room. At 6’2”, I could fit in the back. Ford gave me $5k for it on trade in. They told me they sold it. It will suck for someone. Hopefully the got a warranty.

Now hoping Ford made my 2019 GT right. From my past, it will be with me at least 10 years. Hoping for many more, especially since I drive so few miles each year(5K).

If this doesn’t work out well, I am going to run out of car companies or at least ones I can afford to buy from.

 

[frank s]

[...]It use to be that driving = freedom. Every white and blue collar guy could earn different salaries but they both were able to enjoy driving. I wonder how many still find driving pleasurable. I think the Mustang is a car meant for those that enjoy driving, not just going fast. I think people are only doing other things or at least desire to do other things because the driving experience tends to be bad. Too much traffic, over population, rude driving, electronic police at every corner and on and on. It is becoming harder to enjoy driving and this pertains to all forms of transmission.[...]

There wasn't an apocalyptic shock when this came about: I've been here for it all, and early recognized incursions into my way of being on the road. There is still enough pleasure in the simple act of moving my self and vehicle through space/distance that it's worth owning and maintaining a specialist car. I'm over being angry or frustrated when my favorite back-country roads are usurped by rolling apartment houses. My personal sphere is large enough to absorb a lot of traffical punishment without serious injury to my core. I don't have to verbalize the appreciation I have to be in this place at this time, rather than, for example, in circumstances like those of the unauthorized migrants who have been separated from their minor children, or the millions of displaced persons around the east end of the Mediterranean Sea. That underlying apprehension always calms me and gives me strength to live in the present, and to smile through the Mustang's windscreen in the face of very nearly every combination of progress and potential frustrations.

 

[MNGT350]

The future is electric. Hard to see otherwise. That's fine, watch some car enthusiast videos on YouTube and their reaction to the Taycan and the Model3 performance. I'm an old school car guy and I want one of those.

Used cars are where enthusiasts are going to scratch their itch. I would argue it's already that way. The air cooled 911s, the 2016-2020 GT350, the E46, E30, E90 BMW 3 series, the old naturally aspirated RS4 sedan, many miatas.... those are the driver's cars.

Buy used/iconic if you want an internal combustion classic. And look to tech for the torque monster electrics for your new car that make the regulators happy.

I'm OK with this.

 

[vbondjr1]

Now you can just you shut your damn mouth!

Serenity now!

I don’t understand why people get upset about that. Dodge did that with the charger and it turned out great! Bmw did it with the 8 series, it turned out great. Seeing that ford isn’t bringing the falcon to the states, why not have something more versatile than just a straight coupe? It would give the car a bigger footprint In the market place and seeing that it would cover a broader spectrum of buyers. It would probably be a great idea. But then again, you just proved my point about cars having to “live up to an expectancy.” Which is why I mentioned after that, that if ford would bring the falcon, the Sierra and the Everest to the states it would be so much better that resurrecting vehicles that have to “live up” to what we’ve come to know. My honest thought is that if the v8 is going to die, then let the mustang go and do something different. But if ford is going to keep the mustang, then yeah, the car needs to evolve into something more than what it has already been.

 

[GrabberBlue]

As a millenial I would have to agree - dump cars like the GT500 which are a only set up for quater mile times, if that was my primary objective I'd buy a Tesla. Invest more in cars like the GT350 where driving experince is at the forefront with a stick shift, great sounding engine and more useabe power. Who cares about being teneth of a second quicker to 60.

I share the same thoughts. In my opinion the GT500 is just a Tesla that makes noise. They're only fun when balls to the wall, get boring quick in normal driving and easily will get you arrested. Compared to the GT350 which is a visceral soul churning experience in every situation it is put in.

 

[doccoch]

If there isn't a clutch, it isn't a manual I hate to say I agree with you but I do. I hate it though. Driving a stick shift is like why people are drawn to playing the drums. It is all about timing and lots of things to do to make music. The only thing that sits still is .. your butt. Everything is in motion at some time or another.

Funny, I've always said driving a stick makes me a better drummer. You are the first I've heard besides me make this association... using all 4 limbs differently

 

[vernonator]

The future is electric. Hard to see otherwise. That's fine, watch some car enthusiast videos on YouTube and their reaction to the Taycan and the Model3 performance. I'm an old school car guy and I want one of those.

Used cars are where enthusiasts are going to scratch their itch. I would argue it's already that way. The air cooled 911s, the 2016-2020 GT350, the E46, E30, E90 BMW 3 series, the old naturally aspirated RS4 sedan, many miatas.... those are the driver's cars.

Buy used/iconic if you want an internal combustion classic. And look to tech for the torque monster electrics for your new car that make the regulators happy.

I'm OK with this.

I would disagree that the future is electric - there is too much baggage with it. All you are doing is transfering the emission generation from my car to the power plant. If you read peer reviewed studies electric vehicles at the very BEST are a wash for emissions and more than likely result in more co2/carbon/pollution when you factor in generation, tramsmission, efficiency loss, etc etc etc. Batteries have hit a platuea in development with current or even next gen materials, and no one is addressing the toxicity of the creation and disposal of batteries - it will make storage of nuclear waste look simple. We also do not know how long batteries will actually last - how old are the original Tesla's 12yrs old? What do their battery capacities look like now vs when new? What will it be in 20yrs? What is the cost to replace them? I have a 20+yr old Ranger with 250K miles and it runs just fine and gets pretty much the same mileage as when new, will a Tesla do that in 20yrs?

Yes its popular to force all electric on people but long run (100yrs) batteries will not be it....hydrogen probably?

 

[Copperhead73]

I would disagree that the future is electric - there is too much baggage with it. All you are doing is transfering the emission generation from my car to the power plant. If you read peer reviewed studies electric vehicles at the very BEST are a wash for emissions and more than likely result in more co2/carbon/pollution when you factor in generation, tramsmission, efficiency loss, etc etc etc. Batteries have hit a platuea in development with current or even next gen materials, and no one is addressing the toxicity of the creation and disposal of batteries - it will make storage of nuclear waste look simple. We also do not know how long batteries will actually last - how old are the original Tesla's 12yrs old? What do their battery capacities look like now vs when new? What will it be in 20yrs? What is the cost to replace them? I have a 20+yr old Ranger with 250K miles and it runs just fine and gets pretty much the same mileage as when new, will a Tesla do that in 20yrs?

Yes its popular to force all electric on people but long run (100yrs) batteries will not be it....hydrogen probably?

But, but, ICE is a DINOSAUR!

If that is true, then the electric motor is a proto-saur, considering it predates the ICE by a generation.

I agree that EV's are no cleaner, it's just that your exhaust is vented on the poor side of town. If you want an EV for performance, I don't begrudge you at all. But know that the bigger/stronger the motor, the more electricity it needs and so more dinosaurs are burned. If you want it because it makes you feel good, I don't begrudge you either...but don't look down your nose and lecture me that I am ruining your planet until your electricity comes from the Ether.

I suspect Hydrogen is the way forward. I don't know if we will gain more performance ultimately from using it to power an electric motor, or ICE, or something else we haven't thought of yet.

 

[Fly2High]

I would disagree that the future is electric - there is too much baggage with it. All you are doing is transfering the emission generation from my car to the power plant. If you read peer reviewed studies electric vehicles at the very BEST are a wash for emissions and more than likely result in more co2/carbon/pollution when you factor in generation, tramsmission, efficiency loss, etc etc etc. Batteries have hit a platuea in development with current or even next gen materials, and no one is addressing the toxicity of the creation and disposal of batteries - it will make storage of nuclear waste look simple. We also do not know how long batteries will actually last - how old are the original Tesla's 12yrs old? What do their battery capacities look like now vs when new? What will it be in 20yrs? What is the cost to replace them? I have a 20+yr old Ranger with 250K miles and it runs just fine and gets pretty much the same mileage as when new, will a Tesla do that in 20yrs?

Yes its popular to force all electric on people but long run (100yrs) batteries will not be it....hydrogen probably?

Even with electrics issues, lack of storage density and the conversion of one source of energy to another, it is still, in the sum total, more efficient than gasoline. The real issue is that most engines are only able to extract 35% or so and maybe up to a theoretical max of 50% of the energy stored.

Also, electricity is often made by low emission sources, wind, hydro, and nuclear (has other problems). You can also tweak the extraction to maximize the energy withdrawal so more of the stored energy is converted.

For me, a gas engine is more than just the drive. there are times I miss the old carburetor engines and the manual lash adjustments. I enjoyed changing plug, adjusting the lash and changing the cap and rotor. I still do oil changes. The more you interacted with the car, the more you loved it. I think the more you also respected other cars on the road. TO me, the less the average guy worked on a car, the more it became a tool that just takes them places to do the real things of enjoyment. I have no issue having other interests but having less involvement , I think, has reduced the possibility for the average Joe to enjoy a car - besides driving it. It is only those who modify , these days, who really bond with their car. With electric, it will be like asking, how much love do you have for your dishwasher, vacuum or garbage disposal? Will people still give their cars names ( a symbol of humanizing and expressing their love for Bessy)? I do not show much love for the TV nor the stereo or computer. They are not the same kind of item like a car. A car use to be family. I think that will be gone with electrics too.

 

[Bikeman315]

I would disagree that the future is electric - there is too much baggage with it. All you are doing is transfering the emission generation from my car to the power plant. If you read peer reviewed studies electric vehicles at the very BEST are a wash for emissions and more than likely result in more co2/carbon/pollution when you factor in generation, tramsmission, efficiency loss, etc etc etc. Batteries have hit a platuea in development with current or even next gen materials, and no one is addressing the toxicity of the creation and disposal of batteries - it will make storage of nuclear waste look simple. We also do not know how long batteries will actually last - how old are the original Tesla's 12yrs old? What do their battery capacities look like now vs when new? What will it be in 20yrs? What is the cost to replace them? I have a 20+yr old Ranger with 250K miles and it runs just fine and gets pretty much the same mileage as when new, will a Tesla do that in 20yrs?

Yes its popular to force all electric on people but long run (100yrs) batteries will not be it....hydrogen probably?

Much of what you are saying is true but you need to add "today" at the end of every sentence. Electric power is in its infancy compared to ICE. The Tesla S came on the market in 2012. You might even want to consider it as the Model T of electrics. Within 8 years the Model S is approaching 400 mile range with a decent Supercharger infrastructure. Imagine where we will be 10 years from now.

Of course for all this to work we need to clean up the power generation side of the equation as well. That too is coming and is needed for all industries, not just car manufacturing. Remember production of ICE requires energy too so its just a tradeoff.

Battery technology is coming along. Trust me when I tell you that the pipeline is full of new technology yet to be introduced. Tesla's have 150k battery warranties so that is a none issue. Total battery replacement is not necessary. Individual cells can be replaced if needed.

Will a Tesla be as reliable as your current Ranger. Who know's. Did you know 20 years ago that your Ranger would last this long? Of course not. The likelihood is that if a Tesla is as well cared for as your Ranger is most likely will be around in 20 years.

No one is forcing anyone to do anything, at least at this point. Is called evolution, things change. Back in the day, people were afraid there horses were going to be taken away by the dang awful motorized contraptions. As far as hydrogen, yes it could work put no one is putting any money into it right now. For today and the foreseeable future electric is the only alternative to ICE. You may not like it put it is what it is.

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