Dave Pericak speaks a bit about the Mustang's future

[Hack]

Electric is one step. If everyone really buys into the notion that using energy is wrong/immoral, there are a lot of additional steps that will be needed over time. And there are a lot of things not so good about batteries that can be brought forward once all the gas engines are regulated away. The same logic that gets rid of ICE vehicles gets rid of individuals owning personal vehicles. Single family homes use a lot more energy than apartments, so single family homes should be eliminated. That way everyone can use mass transit. It is more efficient and therefore more ethical.

I have no problem with electric. If it were superior to an ICE I would love it. Well, maybe I wouldn't love it. However, if people in general loved electric and were buying tons of electric vehicles I would accept that. But electric isn't better and people aren't buying electric cars. The government is forcing it on us. I'm surprised so many people seem eager to jump into their cages.

Somehow many people have been convinced that electric is moral and the alternative is not. THAT is what I most object to.

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[Copperhead73]

Electric power is in its infancy compared to ICE.

Respectfully, that is simply not true. Electric motors have been around since 1834 and in WIDE use for a century. Rail transportation has made extensive use of them for generations. TVA's first Hydro dam was built in 1936. Electricity and Electric motors are not some "new-fangled technology".

And bigger batteries on an EV is no different than putting a bigger tank on an ICE car. It still takes more energy to fill it.

 

[shogun32]

No one is forcing anyone to do anything, at least at this point

oh? What do you call legislating products out of the marketplace because of gov't say so? If electrics had any value on their own they would exist by simple predicate that profits are to be had. EV were (still are?) not economical. The gov't bribed companies to produce them, and bribed consumers to buy them. When the subsidies are removed, will electrics' percentage of sales increase? If so, great. If not, the products deserve to die. Now gov't can still play dirty by taxing the hell out of oil and that side of the ledger. So while electrics may not being advantaged directly, gas is being deliberately disadvantaged.

The first rule of proper gov't policy is to do little as possible. Gov't is run by the stupidest and most useless and corrupt people on the planet. Gov't should never be in the business of picking or biasing winners and losers - the point is to establish a equal playing field and let the free market arrive at the optimal and cost effective solution.

Yamaha is shopping a new motor. https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/yamaha-interior-permanent-magnet-synchronous-motor
I don't know how many millions of subsidy the Japanese Gov't threw their way to develop it. Maybe zero? I hope so.

If central planning (gov't dictat) actually worked, Communist countries would be the holy grail and a beacon of innovation and at least social "wealth" (since individual is banned). And yet those systems have collapsed spectacularly every single time. And killed a hundred million of their own citizens in the process and subjected the lucky survivors to miserable existence.

 

[Bikeman315]

Using energy is not wrong, it is not immoral. It is a daily necessity, always has been, always will be. I also do not think that ICE is immoral. I just think we are evolving to something different. Right now that different is electric. Tomorrow it could be something else. I guess we'll see. Until then I'm keeping my V8

By the way here is what is happening in China today. This is man made, not natural. People are dying because of it. Their government is finally starting to take steps to clean up this mess. You do not see this in the US because our government has done some good in regulating industry. And by the way, if you think what is happening doesn't effect us, think Norovirus. We are all connected.

 

[shogun32]

Using energy is not wrong, it is not immoral. It is a daily necessity, always has been, always will be.

Precisely. Behind EVERY unit of GDP (economic activity) is a unit of Energy. It is an unassailable truth. In the name of the "environment" you want to chain a bunch of people to a hamster wheel and generate electricity that way, be my guest. Just be sure to calculate the total cost of such a system vs a system that uses natgas/oil to heat water and drive turbines with high pressure steam.

 

[Bikeman315]

oh? What do you call legislating products out of the marketplace because of gov't say so? If electrics had any value on their own they would exist by simple predicate that profits are to be had. EV were (still are?) not economical. The gov't bribed companies to produce them, and bribed consumers to buy them. When the subsidies are removed, will electrics' percentage of sales increase? If so, great. If not, the products deserve to die. Now gov't can still play dirty by taxing the hell out of oil and that side of the ledger. So while electrics may not being advantaged directly, gas is being deliberately disadvantaged.

The first rule of proper gov't policy is to do little as possible. Gov't is run by the stupidest and most useless and corrupt people on the planet. Gov't should never be in the business of picking or biasing winners and losers - the point is to establish a equal playing field and let the free market arrive at the optimal and cost effective solution.

Yamaha is shopping a new motor. https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/yamaha-interior-permanent-magnet-synchronous-motor
I don't know how many millions of subsidy the Japanese Gov't threw their way to develop it. Maybe zero? I hope so.

If central planning (gov't dictat) actually worked, Communist countries would be the holy grail and a beacon of innovation and at least social "wealth" (since individual is banned). And yet those systems have collapsed spectacularly every single time. And killed a hundred million of their own citizens in the process and subjected the lucky survivors to miserable existence.

OK, I hear you. I am not going to argue this point you because you and I have a different set of values regarding government. And that's fine. I will say that there is nowhere in this country where I am banned by government from buying a 760HP GT500. I do not see this changing in the foreseeable future. After that, who knows. I don't and I doubt you do either.

 

[Bikeman315]

Respectfully, that is simply not true. Electric motors have been around since 1834 and in WIDE use for a century. Rail transportation has made extensive use of them for generations. TVA's first Hydro dam was built in 1936. Electricity and Electric motors are not some "new-fangled technology".

And bigger batteries on an EV is no different than putting a bigger tank on an ICE car. It still takes more energy to fill it.

OK, let me rephrase (although you knew what i meant), "the technology to power motor vehicles efficiently and over long distances using batteries is in its infancy compared to ICE". Better?

And we do not need bigger batteries, we need more efficient batteries and the powertrain technology to use them. This is all happening and will continue until a better alternative becomes avaiable.

 

[Copperhead73]

I will say that there is nowhere in this country where I am banned by government from buying a 760HP GT500.

No, but government creates CAFE standards or other such legislation so that manufacturers can no longer afford to produce them, which is a de facto ban.

 

[Copperhead73]

OK, let me rephrase (although you knew what i meant), "the technology to power motor vehicles efficiently and over long distances using batteries is in its infancy compared to ICE". Better?

And we do not need bigger batteries, we need more efficient batteries and the powertrain technology to use them. This is all happening and will continue until a better alternative becomes avaiable.

Batteries are not in their infancy either. We have been striving for better batteries for over a century. Is sheet metal for electric vehicles in it's infancy, too?

 

[Bikeman315]

No, but government creates CAFE standards or other such legislation so that manufacturers can no longer afford to produce them, which is a de facto ban.

760 HP GT500
800+ HP SRT Demon
650 HP Camaro ZL1
McLaren's
Ferrari's
Porsche's
BMW's M
Mercedes AMG
Nissan GT-R
Acura NSX
Bugatti Veyron
Etc., etc, etc.

Sorry your argument just doesn't hold water. I can buy everyone one of these cars today. No one is telling me what I can and cannot buy (except my wife).

 

[shogun32]

I will say that there is nowhere in this country where I am banned by government from buying a 760HP GT500.

correct. I was referring to UK/EU/NO where the legislative body decreed no more ICE will be allowed to be sold after XY date.

California's ridiculously steep CAFE regs was a backdoor way to (eventually) ban ICE. NOx per liter is another favorite way. Gov't force is still force even when couched in "it's for your own good". I realize there will always be an aspect of "these are the minimum standards" but if gov't is going to propose such it can't be in a vacuum of what is economically viable or scientifically proven as necessary. Back in the bad old days when LA had smog thick enough to spread on toast, or modern day Beijing, sure there can be a public benefit to temporarily curtailing private activity or putting in tighter restrictions.

 

[Bikeman315]

Batteries are not in their infancy either. We have been striving for better batteries for over a century. Is sheet metal for electric vehicles is in it's infancy, too?

Oh, stop now. I am not talking about history dating back 50, 100, 500 years. I'm talking about current technology. Try putting a non rechargeable zinc carbon battery in your cellphone and call me back in a couple of hours.

And by the way batteries go back far more than a century. Try putting on of these in you car.
The object dates back to the Parthian empire and is believed to be 2,000 years old. The battery consisted of a clay jar that was filled with a vinegar solution into which an iron rod surrounded by a copper cylinder was inserted. This device produced 1.1 to 2.0 volts of electricity.

 

[Copperhead73]

760 HP GT500
800+ HP SRT Demon
650 HP Camaro ZL1
McLaren's
Ferrari's
Porsche's
BMW's M
Mercedes AMG
Nissan GT-R
Acura NSX
Bugatti Veyron
Etc., etc, etc.

Sorry your argument just doesn't hold water. I can buy everyone one of these cars today. No one is telling me what I can and cannot buy (except my wife).

Look at your list. Of course the wealthy can have whatever they want! Just as they will still get to fly in private jets while lecturing the rest of us about our "footprint."

And It absolutely holds water. You can buy them all today, but they are being phased out. Isn't that what half the threads on the site have been about lately? And because of Government regulation, they are made in fewer and fewer numbers, causing increased demand, driving prices through the roof, so that fewer can afford them. It's just another form of soft ban.

I will take a page from our younger friends. Of course YOU can still buy those cars you list. You don't care because you are older (like me ) that the next generation won't be able to buy cars like that.

 

[Copperhead73]

Oh, stop now. I am not talking about history dating back 50, 100, 500 years. I'm talking about current technology. Try putting a non rechargeable zinc carbon battery in your cellphone and call me back in a couple of hours.

And by the way batteries go back far more than a century. Try putting on of these in you car.
The object dates back to the Parthian empire and is believed to be 2,000 years old. The battery consisted of a clay jar that was filled with a vinegar solution into which an iron rod surrounded by a copper cylinder was inserted. This device produced 1.1 to 2.0 volts of electricity.

You're saying that we haven't been trying to develop longer lasting, lighter, and more powerful batteries in recent history. Does the space program not need better batteries? Electric tools? Everything not plugged into a wall?
You seem to think developing stunningly superior electric technologies--that are sure to come--will do so simply by virtue of the fact we haven't tried to develop them before. That is absurd. That energizer bunny has been beating his drum for half my life.

 

[Bikeman315]

Look at your list. Of course the wealthy can have whatever they want! Just as they will still get to fly in private jets while lecturing the rest of us about our "footprint."

Now you're picking on the wealthy? What did they do to you. Ok, so your anti-government and anti-wealthy, I get it, it's OK. CAFE regulations are not based on wealth. If I can't buy it neither can Brad Pitt.

nd It absolutely holds water. You can buy them all today, but they are being phased out. Isn't that what half the threads on the site have been about lately? And because of Government regulation, they are made in fewer and fewer numbers, causing increased demand, driving prices through the roof, so that fewer can afford them. It's just another form of soft ban.

What's being phased out? We are currently in the greatest high performance car era in history. ford will make as many 460HP Mustangs as people will buy. They start at a price below the current average as well. There is no ban.

I will take a page from our younger friends. Of course YOU can still buy those cars you list. You don't care because you are older (like me ) that the next generation won't be able to buy cars like that.

Yeah, no. We old folks said the same thing back in the 70's when performance went in the toilet and government started their fuel mileage regulations. We are an internet forum with a handful of members "yelling the sky is falling". The sky is not falling it is evolving. I hope I live long enough to see the hot rods my grandchildren will be driving.

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