Cooled seats not cooling

[ctlaw]

Respectfully, I refuse to accept that line of thinking. Of course it'll cost Ford money to fix existing cars. Why shouldn't it? We paid for the feature and it doesn't work. They owe us a fix or a refund.

Ford also sold some of us squealing brakes and subsequently paid to fix them. Why should we expect less in this case?

The problem is that they will give you a refund of $200.

That's little compensation for those of us who would not have bought the car if we had known the seat did not effectively cool.

Imagine they come up with an effective fix. That will probably run them $100.00 in parts and $150 labor per seat. They'll balk.

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[Free Agent]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Follow the F150 contingent. They have 10 times our numbers, they pay up to $60K for a loaded out truck and they are VERY demonstrative. I'd be willing to bet dozens on that site have already registered complaints on that Federal Highway Safety site and we probably don't have a single person who has yet. (I will be doing so soon.) Deysha is being great but we need to apply pressure through other outlets and we need to work with the F150 community.

 

[willmkent]

The problem is that they will give you a refund of $200.

That's little compensation for those of us who would not have bought the car if we had known the seat did not effectively cool.

Imagine they come up with an effective fix. That will probably run them $100.00 in parts and $150 labor per seat. They'll balk.

I would gladly take 200 and walk, how can I do this lol

 

[Free Agent]

the 2017 fix will be to remove this feature if they see issues across the board and their lineup.

That would be my guess. Notice I said "Ford changes its design." Maybe a seat bottom only cooler or no seat cooling at all.

 

[Alloye]

You may refuse it, I am telling you what's going to happen. If there's no safety issue, you just calculate if not fixing it is going to cost in future sales. Pretty sure answer is no, would love to be wrong. All companies do that.

I've owned at least 15 new vehicles, including six Mustangs, and this is the first time I've encountered a problem where a feature not only doesn't work as advertised, but works counter to expectations. If Ford isn't going to fix it, then they can start counting lost future sales with me right now. I really don't care if the practice is commonplace or not. It's unacceptable and we shouldn't stand for it.

 

[Darko66]

For anyone interested in such things, one of the F150 posters has a link to a diagnostic guide for the 2002 Navigator that provides some technical info about the cooled seats it used. Undoubtedly the technology has changed, but some of the parameters may still apply or at least be in the ballpark.

Here's the F150 forum page with the link:
http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/3...s/6083-cooled-seats-don-t-seem-cooling-2.html

Highlights for cooling mode:
System runs for 12 minutes at full power, then cuts back to less than half after that.
On high, the system only cools the ambient air up to 14°F.
The desired seat temp is 65°F
If the TED rises above 149°F for more than 4 seconds, there will be an overtemp error which switches the unit to blower only mode. If the TED doesn't cool down below 140°F after 30 seconds, the unit shuts down and remains off until ignition is cycled.

So, if the above still holds true, you won't get an overtemp diagnostic error until it hits 149, which might be hard without a fan failure or a very high ambient temp. There's also a "differential temperature fault" which it doesn't explain, but I assume it refers to the temperature variance between the hot side and cold side and the unit likely shuts down once the variance drops too low.

 

[GT Pony]

You may refuse it, I am telling you what's going to happen. If there's no safety issue, you just calculate if not fixing it is going to cost in future sales. Pretty sure answer is no, would love to be wrong. All companies do that.

If Ford doesn't want to piss off future Ford or Mustang owners, they will certainly come up with a TSB and a fix (probably an intake duct that goes to the bottom of the seat). It's gonna be cheaper than the TSB fix they did for the squeaky front brakes.

Fixing problems after production is part of doing business when you're a huge vehicle manufacturer.

 

[Free Agent]

Just submitted at one of the sites above.

Your Confirmation Number (ODI Number) is: 10746869.

For Darko above, thank you. There is no way the upper seat can cool it to 14 degrees below ambient. My back will be at 98.6 or thereabouts and even in 80 degree cabin air, a 66 degree cooled air blowing on my back would feel cold. They may be designed this way but in no way do the uppers actually perform this way. They get hot fast, stay hot and do nothing but try to vent excess heat out a blocked off seat back. Poor design with poor performance. As I said though, I do appreciate the theoreticals on how they SHOULD work. Thanks.

 

[XDsm]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Follow the F150 contingent. They have 10 times our numbers, they pay up to $60K for a loaded out truck and they are VERY demonstrative. I'd be willing to bet dozens on that site have already registered complaints on that Federal Highway Safety site and we probably don't have a single person who has yet. (I will be doing so soon.) Deysha is being great but we need to apply pressure through other outlets and we need to work with the F150 community.

I have been following that thread on the F-150 board and they have been pretty good about using different avenues when they got stone walled with the dealer. Tweeting the CEO, posting on Ford's Facebook, logging complaints with the NHTSA, BBB, and FTC, etc, all in numbers. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[Darko66]

Just submitted at one of the sites above.

Your Confirmation Number (ODI Number) is: 10746869.

For Darko above, thank you. There is no way the upper seat can cool it to 14 degrees below ambient. My back will be at 98.6 or thereabouts and even in 80 degree cabin air, a 66 degree cooled air blowing on my back would feel cold. They may be designed this way but in no way do the uppers actually perform this way. They get hot fast, stay hot and do nothing but try to vent excess heat out a blocked off seat back. Poor design with poor performance. As I said though, I do appreciate the theoreticals on how they SHOULD work. Thanks.

Unfortunately in our case the ambient temp were talking about isn't the cabin temperature, it's the temperature of the air inside the seat back which the device quite inconveniently makes hotter and hotter.

 

[willmkent]

I got my car back with them stating they were able to reduce the temp by 14 degrees. I'll post up my work order so people can see it

 

[FordService]

Deysha, do we need to take it to a ford dealership to have them look at the seats or wait until the parts if any are available to the dealers? Thanks

Bring it in and have them diagnose it, mike62. I’m happy to escalate it for you, once an appointment is made. PM me with your VIN, dealer, mileage, full name, and best daytime number.

Deysha, my car is suffering also from the no cooled seat backs. What can we do to have this taken care of? Thanks!:ford:

Make an appointment with your Ford Dealer for diagnosis, El_Centenario. Then, PM me with your VIN, dealer, mileage, full name, and best daytime number, and I’ll loop in the customer service manager for your area.

Deysha

 

[I8ACHEVY]

I've got my appointment set for next Wed to address all of my concerns. Service Advisor has already warned me that they don't care what others have said online. They'll "investigate it with blinders on."
That could be good or that could be bad. We'll find out.

 

[Free Agent]

I've got my appointment set for next Wed to address all of my concerns. Service Advisor has already warned me that they don't care what others have said online. They'll "investigate it with blinders on."
That could be good or that could be bad. We'll find out.

Sounds like they don't want to have to deal with it. Plug it in show it works for 5 minutes and dismiss it as "working as designed". Lets hope that isn't the case but don't hold your breath.

 

[shockme66]

I have been keeping up on this thread, but wanted to make sure I understand the issue and see if it's affecting my car. My seat bottoms get cold, I don't feel anything on the back, but I also don't really feel anything getting hot.


Is the issue that the backs are not getting cold?


If my car is affected; I think it may be best to wait until Ford issues a TSB, otherwise its a lot of touching of my car by people I don't want to touching it.

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