Shaker pre-amp signal measurements

[neozeric]

Well, pics of where and how you mounted the MS8, the wires you ran and routes you used, and connections would all be helpful

I owe you pics. But here are some answers

The MS-8 is in the spare tire well in the trunk. Ground from rear seat bolt, power from battery (down passenger side), remote power from the blue wire in the trunk's wiring harness (near right rear speaker). The MS-8 powers the center speaker (ran new wire to front down drivers side) and both rears (new wire directly to rear speakers). Then soldered pins 3,4 and 7,8 to rca female connectors and ran an RCA cable down drivers side to trunk. Plenty of voltage for the MS-8. During setup i did not get to 75% before the MS-8 warned about volume clipping. This worked for me and sounds great. I am working on my project thread and will post full details and pictures there. Hope this helps.

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[Bryman]

Thanks man, looking forward to seeing your thread!

 

[SSLByron]

For those who need a quick grounding solution, the rear lamps are grounded behind the plastic panel at the rear of the trunk. Easy to reach and I've been running an amp grounded there now for two-plus months with no issues.

 

[Redalty]

So much info here, almost difficult for me to make heads or tails of it. Im looking to add an aftermarket amp to re-power the front stage on my 401a shaker system and gain some more adjustability. Can I come off the front channels, pre factory amp, and splice in my LOC to get an RCA source to run to my amp. Then just splice back into the front 3 way setup post factory amp?

 

[RevvdMedia]

So much info here, almost difficult for me to make heads or tails of it. Im looking to add an aftermarket amp to re-power the front stage on my 401a shaker system and gain some more adjustability. Can I come off the front channels, pre factory amp, and splice in my LOC to get an RCA source to run to my amp. Then just splice back into the front 3 way setup post factory amp?

You could splice the front speaker inputs that go to the amp - they are RCA level already, so you can splice RCA cables onto those wires, or use the Mouser harnesses listed in the first page so there is no splicing. I'm not sure what kind of losses you would get running them to the trunk, so they may require some kind of line driver. You won't need a LOC though.

Personally, I would like to (and may eventually do) remove the factory amp and install a mini amp in its place. There are quite a few amps out there that put out way more power and are the same size or smaller than the factory amp. Again, if you use the Mouser supplied connectors, you have a plug and play solution, they just are a tad bit tricky to wire.

 

[Redalty]

Okay. Also, where is the sub signal derived? Haven't seen anything about that on any of the diagrams.

 

[Cream Puff]

Very happy with the results im getting out of the dq-61 no noise floor with the front signals summed and the rear going to the sub output.

Still have to fine tune it and replace the factory tweeters with my hertz units but with the aftermarket 6 inch, 3 inch and subs its still night and day better.

The factory tweeters dont sount all that bad running off an aftermarket amp.

 

[Crais]

The range is 0.04 volts at 20% volume to 1.53 volts at 80% volume (and 3.1 volts at max volume) with a CD audio source.

These voltages are on the weak side so I'll be using an Audio Control Matrix Plus up front to boost their strength before a cable run to the trunk area. It's going to take about a week for the Matrix Plus to get here. I'll let you know how it goes.

I don't understand this, perhaps someone can help since I have little experience with car audio.
I'm planning to install an amp this week with an input range of 150mV - 4V, which puts this signal in range. I also believe the amp has summing circuitry built in since it takes both left and right channels for a mono output.

I'm going to run RCA wire to get the pre-amp signal to my trunk. The resistance of the copper wire for that run should be negligible so I wouldn't expect any significant voltage drop on that signal. The current draw will be slightly more from the outputs on the head unit, but even that should be well within the tolerance of the head unit's circuitry and the wires I'll be splicing into.

Why is it necessary to boost that signal just for the short run to the trunk?

 

[kingofsting]

When I get mine, I am thinking of replacing the 400a amp with the KTP 445U, bridged at 4ohms for 90 watts to power a pair of PPI components. Would the inputs be considered speaker level or RCA? Would this work? Here's pertinent info from the Alpine website:

"On the bottom panel of the Power Pack there are selectable input options to accommodate Speaker-Level (0.5V-10V) or RCA (0.2V – 4V) inputs. Selectable 2 Channel and 4 Channel options give you the control to determine source inputs, and can eliminate the need for Y-adapters."

 

[rambunctious]

what is the solution for the separate tweeter channels from the factory amp to these speakers. did you use a cap and add the tweeter wires in parallel to the other front channels? and if so, what capacitance.

thanks
Ramb

 

[blakedanatural]

thank you for the detailed diagrams for your install. I just want to change the speakers and mids in the front doors and the rear speakers. I also want to add a amplified subwoofer. I have the 400a system without the shaker sub. I am searching for exact fit speakers via crutchfield and they don't have anything yet. I hear kicker makes speakers but I like polk brand. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[sandpiper]

thank you for the detailed diagrams for your install. I just want to change the speakers and mids in the front doors and the rear speakers. I also want to add a amplified subwoofer. I have the 400a system without the shaker sub. I am searching for exact fit speakers via crutchfield and they don't have anything yet. I hear kicker makes speakers but I like polk brand. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Did my rear deck speakers with JBL GTO 629s. A couple of guys used the GTO 638 for both front and back 6.5 inch speakers. They came with a plastic bracket that was a perfect fit.

 

[Gronk]

Hey H65

I would like to offer a correction - on my 400A amplifier, C4270 has the RCA level connections on Pins 1-8 as you found, noise cancellation on 9 and 10, but the power and ground are located on that connector (C4270) on pins 15 and 16.

Oddly enough, I mention this because it makes me question how many watts this amp puts out...the wiring on pins 15 and 16 looks like the same diameter as the RCA connecters, but they have 2 wires to each pin. The RCA wires look like 22 or maybe 24 gauge. Even running 2 wires would make the wiring a 20-22 gauge equivalent. If the amp is putting out around 175 watts as I guessed (Shaker pro is 390W advertised - assuming 200+ watts on the sub...) that would mean 175W / 12V = 14.583 amps at full load. 2 - 22 to 24AWG wires should not be pushing that many amps, I have no idea how the wiring doesn't fry. I'm not an electrician but...I am making a "jumper cable" as a I am integrating a 7 band EQ off the RCA's before the amp and running the equalized signal back - think cheap alternative to cleansweep...lol. That being said, I was concerned I was only using 18AWG wire as the power and ground "jumper" between connectors, but since the factory wires for power and ground are only 22 to 24 gauge with 2 wires (equivalent to 20-22AWG), I should be good...

But still, with those tiny wires powering the amp, how much power is it really putting out??

By the way H65 - you don't still have the factory amp, do you? just curious if it notes any specs on the back such as wattage, amperage..etc?


***EDIT***considerations could be: charging system means 13.8 volts while running, not 12 volts, meaning 175W / 13.8V = 12.68 amps - and that is 175W peak, RMS is often half peak, therefore 6.34 to 7.29 amps on those power wires...long story short I feel the factory wiring is insufficient to carry power to the amplifier, and hopefully my choice to use 18AWG as the jumper wire to carry the power and ground doesn't set the car up in flames...lol

Realize this is an old thread but for reference the wires doubled at pins 15 and 16 are not 12 V and ground but in fact are CANBUS wiring, which are communication signals from the head unit to the factory amp and to the ACM or PCM. you cant use these as a power source or you will mess up your vehicle big-time!

 

[Gronk]

I realize this is an old thread but for reference the wires doubled at pins 15 and 16 are not 12 V and ground but in fact are CANBUS wiring, which are communication signals from the head unit to the factory amp and to the ACM or PCM. you cant use these as a power source or you will mess up your vehicle big-time!

 

[joe603]

Loved reading this thread! Gonna resurrect it for newer B&O systems. Anyone have those wiring diagrams or did a system with the newer setup?

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